Who becomes coach?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I am sorry that an evolving thread confuses you.

High school rules allow for you to restrict a coach to the dugout for a reason. I see no need to repeat why that may be a better option for some umpires. If you feel compelled to eject any coach who frustrates you, go ahead.

Evolving threads are not the issue. Your habit of trying to appear superior by repositioning the posts and position of others, is.

For example, when did I say anything about feeling compelled to eject anyone? When did I say I was frustrated by anone? Your posts come close as close to lying as any I've seen.

If you can't honestly respond to my posts, then please don't respond at all.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I will give you another example. Many years ago, I worked an American Legion tourney. In the championship game, I missed a 2-2 pitch on a batter. It was a cock high fastball on the outer edge and I simply kicked it. The pitcher was walking off the mound when I called it a ball. The defensive coch was livid when the catcher shook his head in response to "Was it outside?" I could have been a prick and told the catcher to agree with my call or scold teh pitcher for walking off and showing me up. Instead, I got set for the 3-2 and the batter punched it over the right field fence to take the lead. The defensive coach was insane in the dugout, he tossed the water jug and was yelling about how I just cost him those runs.

You ****ed up hardcore. Of course he was better afterwards; you gave him a free pass. In addition, you just gave the opposing manager a free pass if he so chose to use it. Most importantly, you let them know it was okay to act the ***, and made life difficult for every umpire that came after you. People like you make my job tougher.

I will guarantee you if you had been my partner, that ***-chewing you got would not have been the last you received that day.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

They said that the umpire doesn't cost teams games. I knew better. My blown call did cost him those runs. Yes, his guy threw the next one down the pipe for the home run but it was me who caused him to have another pitch in the first place. The rest of the game was tense, I slept poorly that night and all these years later I knew that my mistakes are costly sometimes. I became a better umpire because of mistakes like this.

Umpires do not cost teams games. If one call changes the outcome, it's because that team did not execute in its 21 or more plate appearances or 21 defensive outs. That logic is from no one less important than a former manager of Team USA. If you want to believe that umpires cost games, fine, go do something else. Actually, with the amount of enabling you do, go do something else anyway.

[MikeStrybel]

Matt, your arrogance astounds. It must be pretty special to be a perfect umpire. In over thirty years of umpiring I have made plenty of mistakes and learn from all of them. Some of my mistakes cost teams. Ultimately they execute the game but I have seen plenty of bad calls end games. I am reminded of a game ending balk during an NCAA Super Regional that had this forum aghast a few years ago. If you choose to subscribe to the belief that our bad calls don't matter, so be it. Armando Galarraga probably feels different than you do. I know that Jim Joyce does.

I assure you that your attempt to give me an *** chewing post-game would not end well for you. I appreciate the levity though.

Being a perfect umpire, you shouldn't have to worry about others like me who use discretion making your life tougher. I wish you well.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Evolving threads are not the issue. Your habit of trying to appear superior by repositioning the posts and position of others, is.

For example, when did I say anything about feeling compelled to eject anyone? When did I say I was frustrated by anone? Your posts come close as close to lying as any I've seen.

If you can't honestly respond to my posts, then please don't respond at all.

Ugggh. You seem to deem anyone who doesn't simply write "+1" as being superior. Rich and Andrew wrote that coaches who cross the line deserve what they get. I don't disagree. I offered that what some coaches should get is a restriction to the dugout or simply ignored. I cited the NFHS rule that allows for this. I provided an interp from the Illinois UIC. Some of us believe that trying to extinguish fires is better than adding to them. Discretion is a learned skill. You seem to be enamored with Jim Evans. He has a bunch of videos that show him engaged in heated antics with coaches that he didn't eject. He used discretion and maturity to overcome their nonsense. Maybe his history can convince you to what I cannot.

Finally, please don't pretend I am lying. I quote the post and respond to it. The thread evolved and you want to stay static. When I offer personal experience that shows my mistakes that is hardly acting superior. You complained when I stated opinions without offering a ruling. I cited 3-3-1g Penalty long ago. Please make up your mind. The NFHS states that coaches who use "profanity, intimidating tactics, remarks reflecting unfavorably upon another person or taunting or baiting" and "charge an umpire" can be restricted to the dugout. Argue with their 'lies' if you feel the need. They wrote them for all to read. (Page 31)

Eject if you want. Restrict if you want. Tim C. gave the best advice so far, make your calls and let the powers that be decide what happens. Around here, a coach who is restricted to the dugout will be appreciative for not getting called on the carpet. I haven't had the need to restrict a coach to the dugout or eject one in a long time. Colleagues who have relate that those dumped seem to harbor season long grudges. That is baggage most don't want. The Illinois UIC prefers it that way too.

[MrUmpire]

There you go again, Michael, pretending you know something you don't.

The only thing you can be certain of regarding who I consider superior is that it isn't you. And now that I've learned how Illinois selects, "state clinicians", and how many they select, it's clear being superior is not a requirement.

You'd have made a great case study before my retirement, but God know I don't have the time to deal with you now.

As you may have noticed, I'm not the only one on to you. Just the loudest. but that changes tonight. I've never suffered fools well, so, good bye Michael, have a great time on the ignore list. Say hi to STB for me.

As always feel free to have the last word...I know how important that is to you.. Go ahead, no one will mind. It's expected.

[yawetag]

If you want to restrict a coach, that's definitely your choice. My stance, however, is that you shouldn't make that choice on whether or not you missed the call. If you feel a coach's actions are worthy of an ejection, then eject; if they're worthy of a restriction, then restrict; if not, then do nothing.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Matt, your arrogance astounds. It must be pretty special to be a perfect umpire. In over thirty years of umpiring I have made plenty of mistakes and learn from all of them. Some of my mistakes cost teams. Ultimately they execute the game but I have seen plenty of bad calls end games. I am reminded of a game ending balk during an NCAA Super Regional that had this forum aghast a few years ago. If you choose to subscribe to the belief that our bad calls don't matter, so be it. Armando Galarraga probably feels different than you do. I know that Jim Joyce does.

I assure you that your attempt to give me an *** chewing post-game would not end well for you. I appreciate the levity though.

Being a perfect umpire, you shouldn't have to worry about others like me who use discretion making your life tougher. I wish you well.

Point 1: You've been umpiring longer than I have been alive, yet I have done games with far more import than yours.

Point 2: It must be nice to be so delusional to misread any criticism that anyone says. I never said "calls don't matter."

Point 3: That game-ending balk did not have this forum aghast.

[MikeStrybel]

Matt,

1. It's clear you have no idea of my resume or experience. Your need to 'brag' tells me all I need to know. Sad.

2. You wrote that umpires calls don't cost teams games. I provided an example where it did. Further, I remind you that our blown calls have consequences too.

3. Yes, it did. Do you even know which game I am discussing? Plenty of comments were made about how he should never have made that call. And no, I wasn't one of them.

To get you back on topic, some coaches deserve to be ejected. They break rules and act poorly. I addressed a blanket statement regarding the need to eject coaches who behave badly. I cited the NFHS rule for handling problem coaches. Handle them as you see fit. I haven't had the need to discipline one in a long time. Maybe that is my umpiring, maybe it is luck. I take no glee in dumping a coach or player. It's just part of the job and thankfully I don't see that many problems on the field. I wish you well.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by yawetag

If you want to restrict a coach, that's definitely your choice. My stance, however, is that you shouldn't make that choice on whether or not you missed the call. If you feel a coach's actions are worthy of an ejection, then eject; if they're worthy of a restriction, then restrict; if not, then do nothing.

Andrew,
Thanks for the civil reply. I believe that if you know you missed a call that it should weigh into the latitude shown to a coach. I won't let coaches argue balls and strikes and keep them in the dugout. They know that about me. If a banger happens and they need to bark, I listen and guide the game back to play. If I blow a call and cannot get help to change it, I listen a little longer. Long ago, a veteran umpire told me this. He kicked a steal play at 2nd and the coach was livid. His response, "Skipper, if I had to do it all over again, maybe I would call it the other way. I gave you the best look I could at the time and I'm sure you saw it differently." That almost always placated the coach. It has for me. I ask them if they are done and the only response they can give is one that allows me to get the game going again.

Sometimes we simply don't have a great angle or enough information to nail the call. I saw a trapped fly ball in the outfield during a pro game a few days ago get kicked by an umpire who is much better than I am. He commented after the game that he kicked the call. He also let the coach chew on him for a while. No ejection. When I see the best umpires doing that it reaffirms the lessons I received long ago. Tolerance and discretion are just as important as confidence and commitment.

Thanks again for being civil.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I saw a trapped fly ball in the outfield during a pro game a few days ago get kicked by an umpire who is much better than I am. He commented after the game that he kicked the call. He also let the coach chew on him for a while. No ejection.

After disputed call, Mattingly, Uribe ejected | MLB.com: News

That one? Both the coach and the batter were ejected between innings.

[MikeStrybel]

Nope. I watch QuickPitch each morning with my son as he eats breakfast. He is learning the game and the highlights are a great resource for him. It was in the past two weeks or so, I'll dig a bit to recall it. I saw the Uribe one too. Wild play to say the least. In real time it was a great steal of an out by the fielder. Some would claim he is a rat for pretending to catch the ball but I thought it was a terrific example of why our job is so tough. I plan to use that play when teaching. If the best of the best can be fooled then we all have hope.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Ultimately they execute the game but I have seen plenty of bad calls end games. I am reminded of a game ending balk during an NCAA Super Regional that had this forum aghast a few years ago. .

That NCAA game ending balk call was a good call. The pitcher had been warned earlier to come to a complete stop. That was the pitcher's boo-boo, not the umpire's.

JJ

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by JJ

That NCAA game ending balk call was a good call. The pitcher had been warned earlier to come to a complete stop. That was the pitcher's boo-boo, not the umpire's.

JJ

I agree, JJ. As stated, I was not one of those who was aghast. A number of umpires here felt he messed up. At the time, even John Bible was on the record that it was booger picking though and not the way to end that game. The next year, rolling balks were a point of emphasis at the annual meetings.

[ozzy6900]

I agree with allowing a little more jawing if I blew a call, but once that coach threw the water bucket, you should have made him gone! I don't care what the circumstances are, throwing objects because you are mad equals a bye-bye!

[MikeStrybel]

Ozzy, in retrospect, I probably would have been a bit more aggressive in handling the coach. A number of fellow umpires were there and wondered why I let him behave like a child in the dugout. When I admitted the kicked call a few veterans nodded knowingly. One of them went so far as to say that the coach wasn't halting the game by destroying his gear so he would have played on and ignored the nonsense. I wasn't at that point of bliss just yet.

Ever had a kicked call gnaw at you? A short memory is important but I used that experience as a valuable lesson. Since then I work hard to give each pitch, play and game the attention it deserves. Yeah, I still miss some but it is not from a lack of effort. I try to treat each game as if it is Game 7. That is the advice I was given a long time ago. I'm still working at it. Take care.