Who becomes coach?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

Sitting back in the dressing room (read: car trunk) right next to my rule books.

I used to carry it but have gotten lacked about it over the past 5 years

-Josh

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jdmara

There has to be a reasonable due diligence in this matter. I don't ask the head coach to produce proof of state certification and three forms of identification to proof that he says who he is.

Well of course not, and I'm not saying anything of the sort... the HC has shown up at the game, in uniform, etc. The problem comes from when all uniformed "coach"es are ejected.

Therefore, I'm going to use common sense and get the name and phone number of the guy and go from there. If something is a muck, the ejected coach isn't going to leave his team under the auspices of anyone random. He is going to tell the team to pack up and leave with him.

Maybe not somebody random to him... but could easily be someone who should not be there. Maybe he picks someone's dad that he sees at the games all the time ... and maybe he doesn't even know this dad is a criminal. I'm not saying it's likely ... but if you allow someone out there that you know NOTHING about, you might be liable for the consequences.

I don't know about you gentleman but I don't always carry my card that says I'm a state certified umpire. Maybe I should, but I don't.

-Josh

I don't either... but I wouldn't be surprised if I happened to be at a game as a spectator, and when I saw they were working one-man and I offered to help, they wouldn't let me because I didn't have my card on me.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I don't know about you gentleman but I don't always carry my card that says I'm a state certified umpire. Maybe I should, but I don't.

Card?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Maybe not somebody random to him... but could easily be someone who should not be there. Maybe he picks someone's dad that he sees at the games all the time ... and maybe he doesn't even know this dad is a criminal. I'm not saying it's likely ... but if you allow someone out there that you know NOTHING about, you might be liable for the consequences.

If the coach picks someone random, that's on him (not me). I allow someone that I know nothing about in charge of the players every time I go to a new school. It's the schools responsibility to assign qualified personnel to the games to watch the players. If that coach is ejected, the ejected coach should appoint a qualified (state certified) replacement. If there isn't one available then game over. If I ask the coach-appointed replacement if he is certified according to the state association and he says yes, they it's no longer on me.

-Josh

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Card?

In the two state's I've worked (IA and KY), we are sent a card or print out a card to "prove" our certification as officials.

-Josh

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by jdmara

In the two state's I've worked (IA and KY), we are sent a card or print out a card to "prove" our certification as officials.

-Josh

MN used to send out a card, but now you have to go online and print it. Of course with just paper it is hard to carry on you (unless you print out a new one every time).

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

MN used to send out a card, but now you have to go online and print it. Of course with just paper it is hard to carry on you (unless you print out a new one every time).

Iowa has gone the same route. I don't want to take the time to get it laminated.

-Josh

[DG]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

BEAREF,

There is no FED rule or case play that says the game is forfeit if the HC is ejected and there are no other coaches present.

I'm guessing that's a league/conference rule in DG's area.

JM

Close, I am not aware of a state/league/conference rule on this either, but it is an understood customary practice by all.

Of course 10-2-3g has my back also.

[UmpJM]

DG,

The only problem I have with 10-2-3g is because 4-4-1 enumerates the FED defined conditions for a forfeit - and no adult coaches ain't one of 'em.

So, forfeits ARE covered in the rules, but no available adult coaches ISN'T, so 10-2-3g has definitely got your back there.

If that's the practice in your area, I think that's exactly what you should do.

I have no idea what the "custom and practice" is around here. Generally, it seems that each conference establishes it's own "game-ending procedures" and the umpire determines whether the game continues or is halted. Whether it is a win/loss, forfeit, or suspended is not my concern.

There is no place I know of that I can go "look up" the IHSA position on any of the NFHS "by state adoption" rules, but everyone seems to agree on what they are. Mildly frustrating to me.

JM

[Tim C]

I have never declared a forfeit.

I have suspended a game and allowed the proper people to decide what is apporiate.

T

[Matt]

This is a simple question, to me. In any youth ball, if all coaches are ejected, I'm suspending the game (absent any authoritative guidance to the contrary.) If it's determined that the game goes ahead, then that's what happens. I'm not playing arbiter of who's allowed to coach any more than I'm going to determine a starting lineup.

Plus, suspending the game maintains a level of fairness vice forfeit or allowing the game to continue with a "makeshift" coach. The visiting team isn't going to have the ability to continue a game as much as the home team if you take either of those routes.

[MrUmpire]

+1

[Chris Viverito]

What about NCAA?

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

DG,

The only problem I have with 10-2-3g is because 4-4-1 enumerates the FED defined conditions for a forfeit - and no adult coaches ain't one of 'em.

So, forfeits ARE covered in the rules, but no available adult coaches ISN'T, so 10-2-3g has definitely got your back there.

If that's the practice in your area, I think that's exactly what you should do.

I have no idea what the "custom and practice" is around here. Generally, it seems that each conference establishes it's own "game-ending procedures" and the umpire determines whether the game continues or is halted. Whether it is a win/loss, forfeit, or suspended is not my concern.

There is no place I know of that I can go "look up" the IHSA position on any of the NFHS "by state adoption" rules, but everyone seems to agree on what they are. Mildly frustrating to me.

JM

I just saw this and did some digging. Here is what I was told:

In Illinois, head coaches and assistant coaches, must be (1) faculty members who have a valid teaching certificate, (2) any non-faculty member who has a valid teaching certificate, or (3) any non-certified person older than 19 year who has completed a coach training education program as approved by the IHSA (ex. ASEP). If the head coach and all assistant coaches are ejected (or otherwise not present) any adult who is present and is a certified faculty member of that school and agrees to take on the responsibility of the welfare of all players may serve in the place of the ejected coach(es). Parents of players (who do not fall within the previously stated criteria) cannot assume that responsibility of acting as the coach, in which case the game must be forfeited. Suspend it and the conference will perform the penalty, if they have not adopted something else.

You will not find that information in the rule book. It this is located somewhere in the depths of the IHSA bylaws which you can find on the IHSA website.

The solution to this would be to restrict the HC or AC to the dugout for the remainder of the game. Many underlevel contests only have one coach, so this comes into play more often. Restricting coaches is far more prevalent at that level. I believe that has already been stated but it is offered in case a member chooses not to backread.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

The solution to this would be to restrict the HC or AC to the dugout for the remainder of the game. Many underlevel contests only have one coach, so this comes into play more often. Restricting coaches is far more prevalent at that level. I believe that has already been stated but it is offered in case a member chooses not to backread.

Which is fine if the ejection wasn't based on his behavior. I couldn't care how many coaches are on the bench; if a HC wants to act like a rat, he's not sitting on the bench the rest of the game.