Mixing the Set and Windup Positions

[Coach Dykhoff]

Ohh, ok.

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

SITUATION:
With runners on, a pitcher starts in the stretch, come to the set position, does the stop correctly, starts a windup and throws to the plate. I call time and ask the umpire to speak to him. He states, "I already know what you are going to ask and it is not a Balk".....

Coach with all due respect, It's not my job as an umpire to "coach" a kid. From what you describe it very well may be a balk, depending on the specific age and league rule set you're playing under. Umpires at varying levels will allow some infractions go un-punished for the good of the game at that specific level. That is, sure it's a balk, but is he really gaining an advantage with what he's doing at that particular level of play? From what you describe, no, that particular pitcher isn't gaining an advantage over your baserunners. It's not just what is written in the rule book, it's also what was the intent of the rule. If it were me coaching, I'd have my kid standing on the next base every pitch.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

Coach with all due respect, It's not my job as an umpire to "coach" a kid. From what you describe it very well may be a balk, depending on the specific age and league rule set you're playing under. Umpires at varying levels will allow some infractions go un-punished for the good of the game at that specific level. That is, sure it's a balk, but is he really gaining an advantage with what he's doing at that particular level of play? From what you describe, no, that particular pitcher isn't gaining an advantage over your baserunners. It's not just what is written in the rule book, it's also what was the intent of the rule. If it were me coaching, I'd have my kid standing on the next base every pitch.

+1

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

We use the MLB rulebook unless we have a specific rule to change or add. This is a 13/14 Rec League where the players are just learning to steal and pickoff. I do not want the kids to learn the wrong mechanics early and allow the umpires to allow it to happen. That is why I want to get clarification on this rule.

Unless you're the league director, how is the highlighted portion your job? For the life of me, I can't imagine letting any coach dictate to me what I'm going to allow.

[Coach Dykhoff]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

Coach with all due respect, It's not my job as an umpire to "coach" a kid. From what you describe it very well may be a balk, depending on the specific age and league rule set you're playing under. Umpires at varying levels will allow some infractions go un-punished for the good of the game at that specific level. That is, sure it's a balk, but is he really gaining an advantage with what he's doing at that particular level of play? From what you describe, no, that particular pitcher isn't gaining an advantage over your baserunners. It's not just what is written in the rule book, it's also what was the intent of the rule. If it were me coaching, I'd have my kid standing on the next base every pitch.

In this league the pitcher gets two balk warning (Meant to teach the kid what he is doing wrong). I know it is not an Umpire's job to teach the kid the game but in the league I am in, it kind of is. The only thing that got me heated was the comment and attitude of the Umpire when I stopped the game.

The first couple times my runner came back to 1st because of the step. After I called time and got the reaction of the Umpire we ran all over him. I am not saying anyone here would act like this but I just wanted a clarification and a discussion.

[Coach Dykhoff]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

+1



Unless you're the league director, how is the highlighted portion your job? For the life of me, I can't imagine letting any coach dictate to me what I'm going to allow.

As I stated "I do not want" not "I am going to prevent this from happening".

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

As I stated "I do not want" not "I am going to prevent this from happening".

Fair enough, but I thought the language (particularly the first "allow") I highlighted was a bit too authoritative for a coach. At this age group (I work basketball, so there may be "cultural" differences), I get coaches who think they can coach the officials as well, and that doesn't go over well with me.

[Coach Dykhoff]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Fair enough, but I thought the language (particularly the first "allow") I highlighted was a bit too authoritative for a coach. At this age group (I work basketball, so there may be "cultural" differences), I get coaches who think they can coach the officials as well, and that doesn't go over well with me.

I voice my concerns when I feel they are wrong but do not coach them (That is what their Head Umpire is for). And sorry for sounding authoritative, that was not my intent.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

(That is what their Head Umpire is for)

Isn't he the guy with the dirty shin guards? Sorry, couldn't help myself. I'm so out of control.

[Coach Dykhoff]

Haha

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

I voice my concerns when I feel they are wrong but do not coach them (That is what their Head Umpire is for). And sorry for sounding authoritative, that was not my intent.

The line between the two isn't that thick, but I'll say it doesn't seem like you crossed it.

[TussAgee11]

All depends on how you want to define facing the batter. Is it his body that needs to be facing? His face?

Frankly, I'm not taking that end of the stick. Its most certainly not a balk as he is not doing anything to violate 8.05. No penalty set forth in 8.01 so if its anything its simply a "don't do that" but in reality, I don't really see a problem with what is described in the OP.

[bob jenkins]

As described, I agree with the Coach. When a MLB pitcher takes the mound (and that's who the rules are written for; other leagues jsut use them), "everyone knows" whether the pitcher is in the set or the wind-up position. If F1 was in a set and stepped as described, it would be a balk. IF F1 was in the wind-up and moved as described and then stopped, it would be a balk.

It's an issue at lower levels because not "everyone knows" what position F1 is in. So, NCAA and FED have specific rules on the foot placement that define the position.

[DBull]

"Well this youngster is not on my team or the problem would be fixed (There wouldn't have been a problem anyway). However when I tried to correct the situation the Umpire made me look like an *** and didn't correct it himself. Even the player's Coach had an attitude that I had the nerve to stop the game to ask the question. Time for me to move to Travel Ball."

Not your place to correct your opponent's players. Not the umpire's job either.

From your OP the umpire has already told you that this was not a balk. That should have ended the discussion on the field. I hope it did, and that you are not one of these pesty rats that are continually ranting during the game, because if you are, and you move up to "Travel Ball" (whatever that is) and higher, and you continue the rant, your life as a coach will be miserable.

[Coach Dykhoff]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

I voice my concerns when I feel they are wrong but do not coach them (That is what their Head Umpire is for).

Stated again.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DBull

Not your place to correct your opponent's players. Not the umpire's job either.

From your OP the umpire has already told you that this was not a balk. That should have ended the discussion on the field. I hope it did, and that you are not one of these pesty rats that are continually ranting during the game, because if you are, and you move up to "Travel Ball" (whatever that is) and higher, and you continue the rant, your life as a coach will be miserable.

It seems like he responded in the only appropriate manner after being told by the umpire; he ran all over the pitcher in question.