Mixing the Set and Windup Positions

[Coach Dykhoff]

The two parts of the rules that I feel make this a balk are:

1) When he steps back while in the set position it is toward first base which makes this a balk.

2) When he steps back while in the set position he is bringing his free foot off the ground to step back (Not going to the plate but doing a windup) which makes this a balk.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

The two parts of the rules that I feel make this a balk are:

1) When he steps back while in the set position it is toward first base which makes this a balk.

2) When he steps back while in the set position he is bringing his free foot off the ground to step back (Not going to the plate but doing a windup) which makes this a balk.

Both of these say, "While in the set position".

What part of the "Windup position" rule has he broken? MByron is envisioning the initial foot setup as the problem. In my head, I'm not - but I might not be envisioning exactly what this kid did. It's very HTBT.

[Coach Dykhoff]

The rule that he has broken is he is setup in the set position. Is he not?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

The rule that he has broken is he is setup in the set position. Is he not?

I don't know... I'm not there.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

The rule that he has broken is he is setup in the set position. Is he not?

If his non-pivot foot is not (or nearly) in contact with the pitcher's plate, he is in the set position. He has balked by not throwing to first IMO.

-Josh

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Assuming he started with his feet in the set position, this is a balk for stepping toward 1B without throwing.

I do not know LL rules, so if this is LL you'll have to check with those guys.

LL

Not a balk in 12 and under divisions

Is a balk in the 13 and up divisions.

BECAUSE - with the runners locked on base until the pitch reaches the batter in 12U there's really no advantage gained by a pitcher.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

LL

Not a balk in 12 and under divisions

Is a balk in the 13 and up divisions.

BECAUSE - with the runners locked on base until the pitch reaches the batter in 12U there's really no advantage gained by a pitcher.

{Dreaming} Why can't LL, USSSA, etc get together and standardize? {/Dreaming}

I was shocked that 9U USSSA was leading off a few weekends ago. It's nuts. If a runner gets on first, they should just place him on third because in two pitches he is there anyways

-Josh

[umpjim]

No free foot limitation in pure OBR anymore.

Just google Cliff Lee or JP Howell to see this as a legal in OBR. As long as the pitcher doesn't stretch to a stop he can windup or not from this foot position that looks like the set.
If you would balk this backward step to first in the OP would you balk a normal windup stepping back to 2B with R2 and R3?
However, these kids are headed to FED so you might as well stop it now.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Perhaps someone should take the young lad aside and instruct him as to the proper way to arrive at the set position, and what his legal options are from that point.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by umpjim

No free foot limitation in pure OBR anymore.

Just google Cliff Lee or JP Howell to see this as a legal in OBR. As long as the pitcher doesn't stretch to a stop he can windup or not from this foot position that looks like the set.

Citation please. It's illegal by rule but ignored in MLB, like not stopping from the set with no runners on.

[Coach Dykhoff]

Well this youngster is not on my team or the problem would be fixed (There wouldn't have been a problem anyway). However when I tried to correct the situation the Umpire made me look like an *** and didn't correct it himself. Even the player's Coach had an attitude that I had the nerve to stop the game to ask the question. Time for me to move to Travel Ball.

[Coach Dykhoff]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Citation please. It's illegal by rule but ignored in MLB, like not stopping from the set with no runners on.

You do not have to stop at the set from the strech with no runners on.

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MLB RULE 8.01

Rule 8.01(b) Comment: With no runners on base, the pitcher is not required to come to a complete stop when using the Set Position. If, however, in the umpire’s judgment, a pitcher delivers the ball in a deliberate effort to catch the batter off guard, this delivery shall be deemed a quick pitch, for which the penalty is a ball. See Rule 8.05(e) Comment.

Rule 8.05(e) Comment: A quick pitch is an illegal pitch. Umpires will judge a quick pitch as one delivered before the batter is reasonably set in the batter’s box. With runners on base the penalty is a balk; with no runners on base, it is a ball. The quick pitch is dangerous and should not be permitted.

=====

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Citation please. It's illegal by rule but ignored in MLB, like not stopping from the set with no runners on.

8.01(a)....Windup.... The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate and the other foot free.

8.01(b)....Set....when he stands facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of the pitcher's plate......

BTW 8.01(b) comment allows no stop with no runners.

What rulebook are you using?

[Coach Dykhoff]

MLB Rulebook

[umpjim]

The question was for mbyron.