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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 12:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
While I can appreciate the need for some to disparage others who make them look bad, I am troubled by umpires who think it is okay to name call. If it is appropriate in your world to name call coaches, do you also do it to your partners when they aren't up to your standards? While no one is forcing you to use the term 'rat', I prefer to teach others the ways to improve the game and themselves. Kids learn from what they see and hear. So, too, do younger umpires. Name calling is unacceptable in most professions. Unless you are a comic or work for the WWE, it simply makes you look insecure.
Do you ever get down from your high horse, or just have supplies airlifted in?

Do you REALLY believe the umpires here go out and call a coach or player a rat on the field? Really?

And do you REALLY believe in this mythical Republic of Respectistan, where we all get along, and it's about improving the game all the time? (Some of the time, sure it is, but not all.)

Our assignor's already told us in a meeting this year there are plenty of coaches, HS and below, in our area that while they might blow smoke up our skirts on the field, they will turn around and call him after the game and ask if we've ever seen a game before. Is that professional? Not so much.

I can tell you the number of times I've called a coach's boss, either a principal or a league official, and said anything like that: zero. That's basically the equivalent of what a coach does.

While I'm civil to every coach on every field I work, I also know at any moment, they'll turn on me, and I'm suddenly the no-good SOB that's trying to eff his team. While name-calling in a profession is unacceptable, it appears THAT crap is a-okay in baseball, at least until the point where you EJ them.

Referring to guys like that as a rat on a message board helps me vent some steam, and keeps me from telling them on the field what I think of them. So it works.
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 08:26pm
DG DG is offline
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I am sure I have met some coaches who would lie for their team's benefit, but most just see the play the way they would like it to have happened instead of the way it really did. And some just like to argue, and some do it for other reasons.

I had a coach approach me and "appear" to argue several years ago after I prevented his batter from going to 1b after getting hit by a pitch. It was the 2nd time in the same game for the same batter and he did not argue the first time. He says "I know he did not make an attempt but the player's Dad is in the stands and if he does not appear to argue he will hear from his Dad after the game." He was bobbing his head as if he was arguing the whole time. I told him I understood, we carried on a bit, and then stopped.

Last edited by DG; Fri Apr 22, 2011 at 08:32pm.
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 09:03pm
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[QUOTE=HokieUmp;752605]Do you ever get down from your high horse, or just have supplies airlifted in?
Quote:

Wow. When a guy condescends and whines here he is applauded. When I ask others to treat each other better it is called being on a high horse. (sigh)

Quote:
Do you REALLY believe the umpires here go out and call a coach or player a rat on the field? Really?
I believe that some here pretend to be tough. They pose and offer advice that is bad for those still trying to learn our craft. I don't think they have the courage of their convictions but enjoy pretending that they do.

Quote:
And do you REALLY believe in this mythical Republic of Respectistan, where we all get along, and it's about improving the game all the time? (Some of the time, sure it is, but not all.)
Long ago, I thought that it was us against them. I was trained well and taught to show them who's boss. After a while, I started watching the veterans who did things differently. They still carried a big stick but didn't brag about it. I was also impressed by their lack of interest in stirring the pot, be it with coaches or fellow umpires. I see no need to insult fellow umpires here, but some of you seem to enjoy it.

Quote:
Our assignor's already told us in a meeting this year there are plenty of coaches, HS and below, in our area that while they might blow smoke up our skirts on the field, they will turn around and call him after the game and ask if we've ever seen a game before. Is that professional? Not so much.
Do you have a point?

[QUOTE[I can tell you the number of times I've called a coach's boss, either a principal or a league official, and said anything like that: zero. That's basically the equivalent of what a coach does.
I wasn't aware that umpires should hold grudges that require such action. I may be pissed off at a coach who acts like a fool but I try to leave it on the field. I have seen plenty of coaches at stores, movie theaters or restaurants over the years. I prefer to have them think of me as professional rather than not.

[QUOTE]While I'm civil to every coach on every field I work, I also know at any moment, they'll turn on me, and I'm suddenly the no-good SOB that's trying to eff his team.[.QUOTE]

I would consider the reasons why they turn on you.

Quote:
While name-calling in a profession is unacceptable, it appears THAT crap is a-okay in baseball, at least until the point where you EJ them.
See, that is where we actually agree. I have never once stated that a coach who acts like an a$$ should be ignored. If a coach behaves inappropriately, dump him. Do your job.

Quote:
Referring to guys like that as a rat on a message board helps me vent some steam, and keeps me from telling them on the field what I think of them. So it works.
Have you ever coached a competitive team for a season?
  #34 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 22, 2011, 09:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
I am sure I have met some coaches who would lie for their team's benefit, but most just see the play the way they would like it to have happened instead of the way it really did. And some just like to argue, and some do it for other reasons.

I had a coach approach me and "appear" to argue several years ago after I prevented his batter from going to 1b after getting hit by a pitch. It was the 2nd time in the same game for the same batter and he did not argue the first time. He says "I know he did not make an attempt but the player's Dad is in the stands and if he does not appear to argue he will hear from his Dad after the game." He was bobbing his head as if he was arguing the whole time. I told him I understood, we carried on a bit, and then stopped.
DG,
I once had a coach come to me after the first game of a DH and tell me he wanted to be tossed right away. His team was clubbed in the first game and he was miserable. I truly felt bad for him as his team was awful and he wasn't. He told me that he wanted to go golfing or to the track and needed an exit. After some antimated finger pointing and showmanship I turned my back and tossed him. I saw him a week or two later and he said it was the best thing he could have done for himself and the team. Only we (and now you) know that he was told to hit the road after begging for it.
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 03:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire View Post
Rat is a term used by confident umpires at all levels...
Rat is a term used by umpires, at any level, for any reason, who are wired for trouble. It is a condescending term which clearly exhibits a psychology of prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination. "Rat" is used to demean another human being and is not any less offensive than the "N" word.

To a one, the umpires I know who use the term "rat" are hoping that by disparaging coaches they miraculously elevate themselves...to slightly above "rat".

If "rat" is such a noble term as you determinately suggest, then take your son or daughter out to a game and call the coaches "rats" right in front of them.

You won't and the reason is much like the "N" word, it is more or your and many others on TOF, obscene forum and locker room talk used only by those of the lowest intentions.
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 03:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieUmp View Post
Referring to guys like that as a rat on a message board helps me vent some steam, and keeps me from telling them on the field what I think of them. So it works.
Try this.

Get rid of your inhumane anger, find out why you have it in the first place and then you won't have to vent anything.
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 05:18am
APG APG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simply The Best View Post
Rat is a term used by umpires, at any level, for any reason, who are wired for trouble. It is a condescending term which clearly exhibits a psychology of prejudice, stereotyping, and discrimination. "Rat" is used to demean another human being and is not any less offensive than the "N" word.
Not even close...I'll let you continue your crusade vs everyone against using the term "rat" but don't even start comparing it with the "N" word or any other ethnic slur. As an African American I find your comparison quite...off base (and that's being nice).
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 07:51am
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If a coach complains to an assignor about an umpire it is usually a result of a dramatic misstep by the official - personally or professionally.

Do your job and leave the name calling to toddlers.
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 07:55am
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The ignore list is a wonderful thing, but it only works well if y'all stop quoting the two people in this thread I've ignored.

Oh, well, off to work a DH.
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 08:30am
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Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
If a coach complains to an assignor about an umpire it is usually a result of a dramatic misstep by the official - personally or professionally.
Spoken like a true RAT. If a coach complains about an umpire, it is probably the umpire's fault. Utter bull$hit.

RAT is a term used by umpires speaking to other umpires. It reinforces our camaraderie. It reminds us that we are the only ones out there with honesty and integrity. We can't ever compromise that. Every game at every level, a RAT will try and get an edge by being dishonest or by downright cheating. Every single game.

We have to be honest and impartial from the first pitch to the last. There is no such requirement for a coach or player. In fact, dishonesty and attempts at cheating are expected of them. How often have you heard a coach say "You can't blame me for trying" after an unsuccessful attempt to gain an advantage by being disingenuous.

Our job is to make sure the game is played fairly and in accordance with the rules. Who wins the game is irrelevant. A RAT's job is to win the game by hook or by crook. In fact, cheating is actually taught by very good coaches and managers at the highest levels. It's part of the game.

Off the field, a coach can be a fine upstanding citizen. On the field, he is a RAT who won't hesitate to try and get me to make a mistake that will benefit his team. And if he succeeds at stealing the cheese, he will be applauded.

I am grateful for RATS. Without them, there would be no need for umpires.
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 08:45am
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Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
Spoken like a true RAT.
+1. A rat in umpire clothing is the most dangerous kind.
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 09:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb33 View Post
Could someone help with the abbreviations that are used? eg: HTBT, OBS, OBR, ETC. Is there somewhere you can go that explains all these abbreviations? Thanks for the help.
I spent a couple decades in the military and here are some I've adapted to baseball:
DILLIGAF(S): No, I've got nothing to offer.
FIFO: Welcome, Rookie.
FUBAR: Skip, he called it. He explained it. I have nothing to add.
HUOA: Iíve got third.
SNAFU: They want to push the start back another hour.
SWAG: Out!
YMRASU: I took this game just to work with you, Rookie.
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 09:10am
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Rich, you are funny. I have been umpiring a long time and have never angered/frustrated a coach or player so badly that they purposely tried to hurt me. You can't say that.
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 09:25am
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Can the term be overused? Yes.

Does it sometimes apply? Yes (to most coaches some of the time, to some coaches most of the time).

Is it more prevelant the higher you go? Probably.

It's kind of like the FYC. It has it's place, but can be overused.
  #45 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 23, 2011, 09:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
Spoken like a true RAT. If a coach complains about an umpire, it is probably the umpire's fault. Utter bull$hit.

RAT is a term used by umpires speaking to other umpires. It reinforces our camaraderie. It reminds us that we are the only ones out there with honesty and integrity. We can't ever compromise that. Every game at every level, a RAT will try and get an edge by being dishonest or by downright cheating. Every single game.
Integrity. That's a funny word coming from someone who just behaved as badly as you.

If you are worried about coaches trying to get an advantage then it is time to hang up your gear. If a coach breaks a rule, do your job.

Quote:
We have to be honest and impartial from the first pitch to the last. There is no such requirement for a coach or player.
No kidding? What is your point?

Quote:
In fact, dishonesty and attempts at cheating are expected of them. How often have you heard a coach say "You can't blame me for trying" after an unsuccessful attempt to gain an advantage by being disingenuous.
No. Thanks for admitting what I have stated all along. A coach is expected to seek every advantage he can in order to give his team a chance to win.

Quote:
Our job is to make sure the game is played fairly and in accordance with the rules. Who wins the game is irrelevant.
Again, what is your point? Agreeing with me is flattering.

Quote:
A RAT's job is to win the game by hook or by crook. In fact, cheating is actually taught by very good coaches and managers at the highest levels. It's part of the game.
One more time, thank you for agreeing with me. Coaches are expected to help their team win. They have rules to follow while doing this. If they break the rules then they can be held accountable. If you aren't capable of doing this then try volleyball.

Quote:
Off the field, a coach can be a fine upstanding citizen. On the field, he is a RAT who won't hesitate to try and get me to make a mistake that will benefit his team. And if he succeeds at stealing the cheese, he will be applauded.
I know plenty of umpires who are pricks - on and off the field. I remember Brinkmann tell us how pro umpires F-bombed coaches all the time but dumped them when they did it. Is he a rat because he parlayed an advantage?

Quote:
I am grateful for RATS. Without them, there would be no need for umpires.
If that is the case then you should seek to work elsewhere. I enjoy seeing most of the coaches I work games with. I get respect because I give it. When I returned to this board I was met with animosity for wishing others well and encouraging civility. I received a couple PMs from guys who said that if I don't like it I should leave. That's funny; the same guys who propose to call coaches names also like to do it to fellow umpires. That is called insecurity and is extremely childish.

Have you ever coached a competitive team?
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