Who's Got First?

[jkumpire]

Garth,

No offense intended if you work lots of baseball, but you need to understand something.

In higher levels of Baseball there is a concept called "own your own call", or "take care of your business". Players and coaches expect the umpire to make get the call right, and lots of people know who should be calling what.

In your case, you are saying you're not sure he got the bag. You did the right thing, you called him safe. F3 gave the play away and the manager was telling him that. I recently was in a ball park for a college game, with a 2 out play at the plate. Ball beats the runner to the plate, F2 made a terrible tag, but in the PU's view tagged him, and the PU rang up the runner. Right call was made.

After the play F2 went and tagged the runner again, after the runner touched the plate, and after PU made his call. HC and F2 had a long talk in between innings since he threw the PU under the bus for the second tag, when the umpire clearly called him out, and he was out.

In your case, your job is to make the call at 1B. You need to own this call. If you go to your partner, or if your partner comes out and overrules you (which is exactly how it will be interpreted by everyone in the park) then on every close play for the rest of the game you are going to get nothing but hassled, and if there is an argument, you will be asked to "appeal it to your partner, he had a better angle than you, etc". On every close play for the rest of that game you have made the PU your assistant base umpire.

Further, when you called safe did you use the basic signal mechanic saying, "He's safe, he's off the bag", and moving both your arms to one side in a waving motion, or did you just signal safe, as in he beat the ball to the base?
Using the mechanic to say that he missed the bag in your judgment explains to both dugouts what you saw, and you would not have heard a word from the defensive team's HC on the play. It sounds to me like like you had a big hesitation before you called safe in the first place, also leading me to think that F3 thought you made no call, so he was trying buy an out call from you.

Now, everyone of us on the board who has participated in this discussion has a desire to get every call right, nobody wants to miss any call ever, especially a call like this at 1B. If the PU is doing his job he has other things to worry about than checking for a foot touching the bag on this play. A good PU would have said to you, "in my judgment he did," (or words to that effect) as opposed to what he told you, because if he's doing his job, he won't have a perfect angle to see the play either. If he does have such an angle he's not doing his job.

What we are trying to tell you is:

1. That the call is yours to make.
2. You made it. That's what should happen on the play.
3. Trying to "get the call right" as you describe it with conferences and asking for help causes many more problems than it solves. and in this case all you have is the PU's guess substituting for your guess, not a good thing to have happen.
4. If you missed it, then find out why you missed it after the game and don't do it again.

And for my .02:

5. Never let a team's HC get into your head like this one did. If you are asking about a call 2 or 3 innings later either you know you missed it, or the HC who said that has gotten you thinking about you missing a call, almost guaranteeing that your mind is on the previous call, instead of getting the next call right, almost a guarantee you will miss another close call in the game.

In your judgment you got the call right. good call. If after the game you think you missed it, forget about it. the losing team did not lose the game because you might have missed the call.

[REFANDUMP]

I haven't chimed in on this conversation until now, but I've taken a great interest in it as I had a similar play two seasons ago and got into a real mess with it. Similar situation, defensive coach comes out and asks if the first baseman missed the bag or not. I was in B and didn't get the look at first that I should have so I had no problem checking with my partner. I asked my partner "Did the first baseman hit the base" and my partner says that he did so I rang up the out. Now the offensive coach comes to me and I explain that I didn't see the foot hit the base so I checked with my partner and he told me that the first baseman did hit the base and therefore we had an out. The coach objects stating that he my have hit the base on the second swipe, but in no way did he hit it on the first. I confirmed again with my partner, and he told me that he did get the base on the second swipe and not the first. Now I had to come back with another reversal and again ruled the runner safe. I now managed to piss off both coaches with one call (which is a rare accomplishment) and look like a complete idiot on the play.

I learned a valuable lesson on this occasion in that I'm now asking a partner only "what did you see" and not a specific question if I confer with them and also that going to your partner sometimes creates more problems than it solves. I like the earlier point about owning your own calls, and I think I'm going to look moreso at using that philosophy in the future.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I haven't chimed in on this conversation until now, but I've taken a great interest in it as I had a similar play two seasons ago and got into a real mess with it. Similar situation, defensive coach comes out and asks if the first baseman missed the bag or not.

The sit is similar to me but not to the rest of the forum. Their arguments would be since the DC has asked about the call then a) Screw him it's not his place or b) Time to conference. There may be c, d, e and f but to me it makes no difference. Get the call right.

I was in B and didn't get the look at first that I should have so I had no problem checking with my partner. I asked my partner "Did the first baseman hit the base" and my partner says that he did so I rang up the out. Now the offensive coach comes to me and I explain that I didn't see the foot hit the base so I checked with my partner and he told me that the first baseman did hit the base and therefore we had an out. The coach objects stating that he my have hit the base on the second swipe, but in no way did he hit it on the first. I confirmed again with my partner, and he told me that he did get the base on the second swipe and not the first. Now I had to come back with another reversal and again ruled the runner safe. I now managed to piss off both coaches with one call (which is a rare accomplishment) and look like a complete idiot on the play.

Sorry for that but so what? Did your life immeasurably change? Did you grow donkey ears and bray at the moon? Did your wife refuse sex for the remainder of your life? Nothing of any consequence happened. Nothing at all. MOF, after giving the coaches their say, you are in a perfect position to toss.

"Coach, you came out and wanted me to get the call right. We did exactly what you wanted. That will be all."

I learned a valuable lesson on this occasion in that I'm now asking a partner only "what did you see" and not a specific question if I confer with them...

In a conference, you and your partner can go over the entirety of the call, taking your time to discuss all the particulars. Including, in this case, if or if not the swipe made contact and when the swipe made contact which will lead you to gettting the call right.

... and also that going to your partner sometimes creates more problems than it solves.

No, it creates a different problem one you are ethically bound to solve. Get the call right. That's what you're paid to do, isn't it or do they pay you to call them anyway that suits your fancy?

I like the earlier point about owning your own calls, and I think I'm going to look moreso at using that philosophy in the future.

I don't know what that means but it sounds like a cop-out at first read.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

In higher levels of Baseball there is a concept called "own your own call", or "take care of your business".

lol Also known as "take the easy way out".

In your case, your job is to make the call at 1B. You need to own this call. If you go to your partner, or if your partner comes out and overrules you (which is exactly how it will be interpreted by everyone in the park)

Halt! The truly knowlegeable will interpret this as a solid team of officials getting the call right.

then on every close play for the rest of the game you are going to get nothing but hassled, and if there is an argument, you will be asked to "appeal it to your partner, he had a better angle than you, etc". On every close play for the rest of that game you have made the PU your assistant base umpire.

Oh, BS. "Every"? "Appeal to partner" ? Game control, learn it. Life is tough, we're growing organs daily, get in line for a pair. "Take the easy way out" is for wimps.

Now, everyone of us on the board who has participated in this discussion has a desire to get every call right, nobody wants to miss any call ever, especially a call like this at 1B.

I'd like to have 8 dark hours with Miss America, so what about "desires". Wishing is for children, doing the job right is proof of adulthood.

If the PU is doing his job he has other things to worry about than checking for a foot touching the bag on this play. A good PU would have said to you, "in my judgment he did," (or words to that effect) as opposed to what he told you, because if he's doing his job, he won't have a perfect angle to see the play either. If he does have such an angle he's not doing his job.

Excuse moi, but wtf is PU doing on this play if he isn't following the ball and B-R up the line? BU is in B, No R2/R3 is indicated.

What we are trying to tell you is:

A bunch more baloney.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

lol Also known as "take the easy way out". Halt! The truly knowlegeable will interpret this as a solid team of officials getting the call right. Oh, BS. "Every"? "Appeal to partner" ? Game control, learn it. Life is tough, we're growing organs daily, get in line for a pair. "Take the easy way out" is for wimps.I'd like to have 8 dark hours with Miss America, so what about "desires". Wishing is for children, doing the job right is proof of adulthood. Excuse moi, but wtf is PU doing on this play if he isn't following the ball and B-R up the line? BU is in B, No R2/R3 is indicated.

A bunch more baloney.

Are you just trying to be offensive for the fun of it?

A: The "easy way out" is to run to your partner every time someone comes out of the dugout and complains about a call, or wear a set of rabbit ears hearing every comment from the dugout, and responding to it. The easy way out is to have so little respect for the game and the players in it you don't do your job and own up to your call.

B. If your umpires are working as a team on this play, then the PU is not in a great position to see this play, as he is looking for the legal slide at 2B, and then aware he might have a call at 3B using some mechanics. He sure as shooting is not going to come out an overrule a judgment call by his partner at 1B. Or do you make it a habit of throwing in your own opinion on every close call your partner makes?

C. Nice way to reveal you have one year of experience 20 times Simply. If you want to show you have guts (or whatever rude term you wish to use in print), then tell the person who started this thread to make the right call the first time, and not have to go to his partner to get his judgment. Do this stuff in an NCAA game and see how much trash you have to deal with coming from the dugout the rest of the day.

D. I have no idea what your ranting about with "8 hours with Miss America'. I guess you really don't give a hoot about getting calls right in a game, like most of us here do. Maybe I'll move to where you umpire, since getting calls right and game management doesn't seem to matter much to people where you work. Nonsensical responses don't make you look very good either.

E. The original poster told us he was in B, so he either has R1, or R1/R3. I assume it's R1, and if it is, the PU had better not be going up the line following the BR. Maybe if you read the post before attacking someone you might understand what they are saying. "Great" mechanics on your part if you are going up the line with your partner in B. Good luck this season, you and your partners will need it.

F. Thank you for your opinion Simply, I'd really enjoy working a game with you sometime, so we can find out who is full of lunch meat and who is filled with hot air being let out in a post.