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i would think that by asking for help i would be showing that I am all about getting it right. sheesh. |
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Officiate as you see fit and have a good season. |
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From NCAA Appendix E "Getting the Call Right"
No umpire shall criticize or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked by the one making it. The umpire making the call must be the one to seek asistance of a partner. In the situations below, a partner who is 100 percetn certain he has addiitonal information should approach unsolicited and alert the other umpire to such information (7 items listed, none of which is "pulled foot or swipe tag at first") |
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I find it interesting, "Garth", that you signed your OP "Gordon."
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Last edited by Garth Vader; Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 05:33pm. |
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You guys can update me, because my CCA is 2009 model and in it PU goes up the 1b line with R1 only and on batted ball toward F3, U1 has BR at 1st as well as R1 at 2b and 3b if he chooses to advance past 2b.
I generally, in pregame say I will take runner on 1st into 3rd only if a batted ball leaves the infield. I would not interject on my partners's call, but if he asks me, that is why I came up the line in 1st place so I would tell him and he can decide what to do with that info |
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NCAA Publications - 2011-2012 Baseball Rules (2 Year Publication) There is this lead-in to Appendix E "Getting The Call Right" which says: "The first requisite of an umpire is to ultimately get all decisions correct. Umpire pride is important, but never as important as getting the play right. It is the philosophy of the NCAA that umpires always seek to get the call right. This may involve the reversal of a previously rendered decision. However, the correct decision—not the pride of any umpire—must prevail." This is the ethics I teach, apparently you were taught, and on which any umpire should be taught. To add emphasis, this creed of ethics is repeated in Section D; "...contrary to past practice, umpires are not to “die with a call” in cases in which a) the calling umpire is not 100 percent certain he is right; and b) another umpire has additional information that could lead to a proper ruling. Both NCAA philosophy and umpire integrity – consistent with NCAA rules – dictate that calls are reversed in this situation." The last paragraph of Appendix E states : "Overall, umpires are urged to seek help on reversible plays in which they may have erred by not seeing a crucial element of a play." These quotes above leave absolutely no interpretation by any official that places the game in front of his pride and ego except to "Get The Cal Right" regardless. |
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A. You stated; "The pitcher from my angle may or may not have tagged the edge of the base facing second ( at this point I would have been looking to my partner for help)". So what changed your mind? You didn't know. The follow on action should never have a bearing on what you saw or didn't see. Would every trapped ball you call be changed to a catch because the fielder holds it up and shows it too you, course not. A batter doesn't swing, does his action "suggest" it wasn't a strike? B. Your partner told you, you missed it. Hindsight say's you should asked. C. It woulda looked sharp as heck, and you've nothing to lose, worst you get is the same call, the best you get is an out. And you'll sleep much better knowing you did everything in your power to GET IT RIGHT. 2. No. Your partner doesn't know why you called em safe, maybe you had a bobble, maybe you thought the runner won the race? You later post your partner should have interjected, again, what if you just flat missed a call, you would expect your partner to stop all action and tell you what he had? On what, every play? Only 95% of em, 50%, where do you draw the line? How about a low strike, should the BU interject. Why not just go with 3 umpire's per base, majority rules? I like your get it right desire, but "you" gotta get em right not the consensus. How could you adjust your coverage on this play to see the whole picture, did ya relax thinking it was gonna be a gimme? Were you hedging towards 2B to much in anticipation of a play there? Good luck and "get em right"..
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SLAS |
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Garth, I appreciate your position, but there are problems
Garth,
No offense intended if you work lots of baseball, but you need to understand something. In higher levels of Baseball there is a concept called "own your own call", or "take care of your business". Players and coaches expect the umpire to make get the call right, and lots of people know who should be calling what. In your case, you are saying you're not sure he got the bag. You did the right thing, you called him safe. F3 gave the play away and the manager was telling him that. I recently was in a ball park for a college game, with a 2 out play at the plate. Ball beats the runner to the plate, F2 made a terrible tag, but in the PU's view tagged him, and the PU rang up the runner. Right call was made. After the play F2 went and tagged the runner again, after the runner touched the plate, and after PU made his call. HC and F2 had a long talk in between innings since he threw the PU under the bus for the second tag, when the umpire clearly called him out, and he was out. In your case, your job is to make the call at 1B. You need to own this call. If you go to your partner, or if your partner comes out and overrules you (which is exactly how it will be interpreted by everyone in the park) then on every close play for the rest of the game you are going to get nothing but hassled, and if there is an argument, you will be asked to "appeal it to your partner, he had a better angle than you, etc". On every close play for the rest of that game you have made the PU your assistant base umpire. Further, when you called safe did you use the basic signal mechanic saying, "He's safe, he's off the bag", and moving both your arms to one side in a waving motion, or did you just signal safe, as in he beat the ball to the base? Using the mechanic to say that he missed the bag in your judgment explains to both dugouts what you saw, and you would not have heard a word from the defensive team's HC on the play. It sounds to me like like you had a big hesitation before you called safe in the first place, also leading me to think that F3 thought you made no call, so he was trying buy an out call from you. Now, everyone of us on the board who has participated in this discussion has a desire to get every call right, nobody wants to miss any call ever, especially a call like this at 1B. If the PU is doing his job he has other things to worry about than checking for a foot touching the bag on this play. A good PU would have said to you, "in my judgment he did," (or words to that effect) as opposed to what he told you, because if he's doing his job, he won't have a perfect angle to see the play either. If he does have such an angle he's not doing his job. What we are trying to tell you is: 1. That the call is yours to make. 2. You made it. That's what should happen on the play. 3. Trying to "get the call right" as you describe it with conferences and asking for help causes many more problems than it solves. and in this case all you have is the PU's guess substituting for your guess, not a good thing to have happen. 4. If you missed it, then find out why you missed it after the game and don't do it again. And for my .02: 5. Never let a team's HC get into your head like this one did. If you are asking about a call 2 or 3 innings later either you know you missed it, or the HC who said that has gotten you thinking about you missing a call, almost guaranteeing that your mind is on the previous call, instead of getting the next call right, almost a guarantee you will miss another close call in the game. In your judgment you got the call right. good call. If after the game you think you missed it, forget about it. the losing team did not lose the game because you might have missed the call. |
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I haven't chimed in on this conversation until now, but I've taken a great interest in it as I had a similar play two seasons ago and got into a real mess with it. Similar situation, defensive coach comes out and asks if the first baseman missed the bag or not. I was in B and didn't get the look at first that I should have so I had no problem checking with my partner. I asked my partner "Did the first baseman hit the base" and my partner says that he did so I rang up the out. Now the offensive coach comes to me and I explain that I didn't see the foot hit the base so I checked with my partner and he told me that the first baseman did hit the base and therefore we had an out. The coach objects stating that he my have hit the base on the second swipe, but in no way did he hit it on the first. I confirmed again with my partner, and he told me that he did get the base on the second swipe and not the first. Now I had to come back with another reversal and again ruled the runner safe. I now managed to piss off both coaches with one call (which is a rare accomplishment) and look like a complete idiot on the play.
I learned a valuable lesson on this occasion in that I'm now asking a partner only "what did you see" and not a specific question if I confer with them and also that going to your partner sometimes creates more problems than it solves. I like the earlier point about owning your own calls, and I think I'm going to look moreso at using that philosophy in the future.
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I'm due to make a great call. After all, I've been officiating a long time !!! |
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I'm getting tired of bein lectured by umpires who are trying to sell there laxness to being ethical and honest and hove a 1000 excuses why they should sellout and not GET THE CALL RIGHT. I have looked in every manual form HS to NCAA and others and the instruction is ok the same. Forget about anything else and get the call right.
Forget about anything else and get the call right. so what it gets down to is that you are above the game and anything that will make your life easy is what you are going to do. Fine. go ahead, shame on you, don't expect me to bow to your low standards though. |
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"Coach, you came out and wanted me to get the call right. We did exactly what you wanted. That will be all." Quote:
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