Who's Got First?

[Simply The Best]

All in all, this thread boils down to simple classification of umpires.

1) Scared to death to be seen as human (prone to error), wearing your ego emblazoned on your chest in luminance paint and considering yourself bigger than the game...or

2) Personally secure enough to be able to admit error, especially under difficult circumstances, do the right thing and get the call correct.

Considering #2, this correction can so easily be accomplished without anyone being "sacrificed" , Numero Uno is a sad joke on its beholder.

Hint: No one gives a damn about your ego...except yourself.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

All in all, this thread boils down to simple classification of umpires.

1) Scared to death to be seen as human (prone to error), wearing your ego emblazoned on your chest in luminance paint and considering yourself bigger than the game...or

2) Personally secure enough to be able to admit error, especially under difficult circumstances, do the right thing and get the call correct.

Considering #2, this correction can so easily be accomplished without anyone being "sacrificed" , Numero Uno is a sad joke on its beholder.

Hint: No one gives a damn about your ego...except yourself.

I want to see an honest reply to my post above and Bob's just two above this one. Don't get emotional, don't use the word ego -- just describe how the PU can *do his job* and still have a great look on a play at first he's not even responsible for.

I'm guessing I'll be waiting a long time for this, troll.

[dileonardoja]

My take from the OP is that the coach is an experienced baseball guy in that he realized his player made a mistake in trying to touch the bag again. As such, he knew he was a loser in an argument. It is similar to the catcher not holding on to a marginal pitch. He is not getting the call. An experienced coach knows that and tells his catcher to hang on the ball. An inexperienced coach asks the catcher, "where was it?"

This is a game of subtleties and when you've been around it for a while you know what they are.

For all those who say the most important thing is getting the call right what makes you sure it will be right even after it is changed. If getting it right was the imperative we would confer after every call just to make sure the call was correct.

the goal should be to be consistent in all phases and expertly manage the game.

[Garth Vader]

Originally Posted by dileonardoja

For all those who say the most important thing is getting the call right

Do you?[quote] what makes you sure it will be right even after it is changed.[Right is when a clear an obvious error has been made as per my OP

If getting it right was the imperative we would confer after every call just to make sure the call was correct.

Ridiculous and you should know it.

the goal should be to be consistent in all phases and expertly manage the game.

The only goal that matters is "GET IT RIGHT.

[MrUmpire]

Must be the three year reunion.

[BSUmp16]

There's more to it than "getting it right" on every individual call. Sometimes you just have to umpire. I don't have a problem with Garth's philosophy, just as long as I don't have to work with a partner that shares it.

[biggravy]

Garth, I'm confused why you come here asking the question in the OP, then 10 posts later you berate people for giving you an answer?

As described, I am not expecting my partner to have a good look at that play. He has other responsibilities. Even going to him opens a whole other can of worms. If he was on that play he just told me, and the opposing coach, that he was not watching the other runners and thus negating his area of responsibility. I have no problem getting the best look I can using two person mechanics, and then telling the coach that I will not go for help on that play. Just my two cents.

[Simply The Best]

There really needs to be a discussion about getting this call right when there has been an obvious, correctable error as in the case of the OP?

Really? Think about that.

Leaving this call unadjusted is not only the height of being unethical it is flat out cheating.

Pathetic beyond expression.

[Durham]

I agree we should work to get all called right, but unless I am mistaken, all codes say that I cannot change another umpires call and if I did my actions could be subject to protest and I would lose. The NCAA did give us a list of when the non calling umpires should step in and help without invite, but the OP isn't one of them.

The game has found away to survive this long as is, and has a process for this. The manager/HC comes out and argues the call. When that happens we have a choice and some umpires have a mechanic for this. I have worked with guys that will start down or others that remove their hat if they have something for me.

To be honest if I were the calling umpire and knew I missed a crucial element of this play, I would stop the manager/HC on his way out before he got to me and I would get my crew together. After that there isn't much that anyone could argue. I didn't give the illusion that I let the coach talk me into it, he never got close enough to talk to me. As far as the being out of position argument, that is not a conversation that a coach and I are going to have, but he is correct, I am going to have to read better.

Have a great weekend all. I get to work with 5 great guys at as great ballpark in a great city this weekend. Hope you all have as much fun as I do this weekend.

[Garth Vader]

Originally Posted by biggravy

Garth, I'm confused why you come here asking the question in the OP, then 10 posts later you berate people for giving you an answer?

Berate the answers not the people.

As described, I am not expecting my partner to have a good look at that play. He has other responsibilities. Even going to him opens a whole other can of worms. If he was on that play he just told me, and the opposing coach, that he was not watching the other runners and thus negating his area of responsibility. I have no problem getting the best look I can using two person mechanics, and then telling the coach that I will not go for help on that play. Just my two cents.

I never would have beleived that getting the call right would be an issue here. I assumed other.

[Simply The Best]

Garth Vader, you're wasting your time, let it go. The majority has spoken and their position is crystal clear and quite telling.

[Garth Vader]

I'm getting tired of bein lectured by umpires who are trying to sell there laxness to being ethical and honest and hove a 1000 excuses why they should sellout and not GET THE CALL RIGHT. I have looked in every manual form HS to NCAA and others and the instruction is ok the same. Forget about anything else and get the call right.

Forget about anything else and get the call right. so what it gets down to is that you are above the game and anything that will make your life easy is what you are going to do. Fine. go ahead, shame on you, don't expect me to bow to your low standards though.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Garth Vader

I'm getting tired of bein lectured by umpires who are trying to sell there laxness to being ethical and honest and hove a 1000 excuses why they should sellout and not GET THE CALL RIGHT. I have looked in every manual form HS to NCAA and others and the instruction is ok the same. Forget about anything else and get the call right.

Forget about anything else and get the call right. so what it gets down to is that you are above the game and anything that will make your life easy is what you are going to do. Fine. go ahead, shame on you, don't expect me to bow to your low standards though.

So go and get the call right, for God's sake, and stop blubbering! While your at it, try buying a book on positioning and get into the right place to make the call. From the B, you should be able to move into position and adjust as needed and don't even think of arguing that you were in the right place. 30 years of umpiring and 10 years of evaluating for my association tells me that you were not in the right place.

[rpumpire]

Originally Posted by Garth Vader

I'm getting tired of bein lectured by umpires who are trying to sell there laxness to being ethical and honest and hove a 1000 excuses why they should sellout and not GET THE CALL RIGHT.

Forget about anything else and get the call right. (

So, Garth, the next time you're in B position and see a nice pitch down the middle that the plate umpire calls a ball, you're going to call time and inform everyone that we have a strike instead?

[bob jenkins]

I think sufficianet viewpoints have been raised on each side of the issue. Go for help, provide help, or don't, depending on your views, the situation, the standards in your area, your partner, ...