Who's Got First?

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Garth Vader

Here's my question.

1. Hindsight being 20/20 should I have looked to my partner for help even though to everyone watching (myself included) this game that the pitcher tagging the base twice suggested that he missed the base the first time.

2. Should my partner have come to me to let me know that he tagged the base the first time?

Gordon

Garth, I know I am a little late in this however, Bob is exactly right here, "Getting the call right is important. Getting it right the right way is also important -- and not every call can be "got right", especially in 2-person."

From your post, you had determined the runner was safe and declared it. If you had doubt, then ask your partner before you declare safe or out, or get in a better position to know for yourself. That is all everyone is saying here.

Your credibility is automatically on the line everytime you make a decision and then question it, by asking for help. The path you choose and the extent you go to, to "get the call rght" is entirely up to you. We are just passing on the experience that has worked best for us.

[Garth Vader]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Garth, I know I am a little late in this however, Bob is exactly right here, "Getting the call right is important. Getting it right the right way is also important -- and not every call can be "got right", especially in 2-person."

From your post, you had determined the runner was safe and declared it. If you had doubt, then ask your partner before you declare safe or out, or get in a better position to know for yourself. That is all everyone is saying here.

off point because I asked if my partner should have come out and told me i missed it. He should have. which is not the point- maybe I should have asked "How should my partner informed me I missed the call?" i thought it was a given to do the right thing and get the call right. Almost everyone agrees i am wrong. I'm stunned. Stunned to see the replies.

Your credibility is automatically on the line everytime you make a decision and then question it, by asking for help. The path you choose and the extent you go to, to "get the call rght" is entirely up to you. We are just passing on the experience that has worked best for us.

my credibility and my integrity as an ump is ZEROif i choose to let calls made wrong stay wrong. if i am PU, i'm taliking to BU.

i would think that by asking for help i would be showing that I am all about getting it right. sheesh.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Garth Vader

I would think that by asking for help i would be showing that I am all about getting it right. sheesh.

You can think that way if you want but just remember, every time you change your call the the previously happy coach will now be the unhappy one.

Officiate as you see fit and have a good season.

[bob jenkins]

From NCAA Appendix E "Getting the Call Right"

No umpire shall criticize or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked by the one making it.

The umpire making the call must be the one to seek asistance of a partner.

In the situations below, a partner who is 100 percetn certain he has addiitonal information should approach unsolicited and alert the other umpire to such information (7 items listed, none of which is "pulled foot or swipe tag at first")

[Garth Vader]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

From NCAA Appendix E "Getting the Call Right"

No umpire shall criticize or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked by the one making it.

The umpire making the call must be the one to seek asistance of a partner.

In the situations below, a partner who is 100 percetn certain he has addiitonal information should approach unsolicited and alert the other umpire to such information (7 items listed, none of which is "pulled foot or swipe tag at first")

this is what i am referring to thanks for the update. just because there are only 7 the heart of the rule is clear. Bob, what are those seven?

[DG]

You guys can update me, because my CCA is 2009 model and in it PU goes up the 1b line with R1 only and on batted ball toward F3, U1 has BR at 1st as well as R1 at 2b and 3b if he chooses to advance past 2b.

I generally, in pregame say I will take runner on 1st into 3rd only if a batted ball leaves the infield.

I would not interject on my partners's call, but if he asks me, that is why I came up the line in 1st place so I would tell him and he can decide what to do with that info

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DG

You guys can update me, because my CCA is 2009 model and in it PU goes up the 1b line with R1 only and on batted ball toward F3, U1 has BR at 1st as well as R1 at 2b and 3b if he chooses to advance past 2b.

I generally, in pregame say I will take runner on 1st into 3rd only if a batted ball leaves the infield.

That's last year's mechanic. Now, PU has R1 (with R1 only) at third even if the batted ball doesn't leave the infield, unless there's a fair-foul issue in which case PU needs to stay near the line to rule on that so BU has the second play at thrid.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Garth Vader

this is what i am referring to thanks for the update. just because there are only 7 the heart of the rule is clear. Bob, what are those seven?

GarthV you can download a free copy of the NCAA rules:

NCAA Publications - 2011-2012 Baseball Rules (2 Year Publication)

There is this lead-in to Appendix E "Getting The Call Right" which says:

"The first requisite of an umpire is to ultimately get all decisions correct. Umpire pride is important, but never as important as getting the play right. It is the philosophy of the NCAA that umpires always seek to get the call
right. This may involve the reversal of a previously rendered decision. However, the correct decision—not the pride of any umpire—must prevail."

This is the ethics I teach, apparently you were taught, and on which any umpire should be taught.

To add emphasis, this creed of ethics is repeated in Section D;

"...contrary to past practice, umpires are not to “die with a call” in cases in which a) the calling umpire is not 100 percent certain he is right; and b) another umpire has additional information that could lead to a proper ruling. Both NCAA philosophy and umpire integrity – consistent with NCAA rules – dictate that calls are reversed in this situation."

The last paragraph of Appendix E states :

"Overall, umpires are urged to seek help on reversible plays in which they may have erred by not seeing a crucial element of a play."

These quotes above leave absolutely no interpretation by any official that places the game in front of his pride and ego except to "Get The Cal Right" regardless.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by Garth Vader

off point because I asked if my partner should have come out and told me i missed it. He should have. which is not the point- maybe I should have asked "How should my partner informed me I missed the call?" i thought it was a given to do the right thing and get the call right. Almost everyone agrees i am wrong. I'm stunned. Stunned to see the replies.

Then you're not reading any rule books, ever. See Bob's reply regarding the NCAA. And look at 9.02(c) in OBR while you're researching stuff.

my credibility and my integrity as an ump is ZERO if i choose to let calls made wrong stay wrong. if i am PU, i'm taliking to BU.

And if I'm the BU, you'll do that once. And we'll only work together that one game.

i would think that by asking for help i would be showing that I am all about getting it right. sheesh.

Okay, it's time you admit you're actually a coach, looking to stir things up.

[MrUmpire]

I find it interesting, "Garth", that you signed your OP "Gordon."

Here's my question.

1. Hindsight being 20/20 should I have looked to my partner for help even though to everyone watching (myself included) this game that the pitcher tagging the base twice suggested that he missed the base the first time.

2. Should my partner have come to me to let me know that he tagged the base the first time?

Gordon

How do you prefer to be addressed?

[Garth Vader]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

And if I'm the BU, you'll do that once. And we'll only work together that one game.

ok by me as this thread goes on there are fewer and fewer that I would take an assignment.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by Garth Vader

ok by me as this thread goes on there are fewer and fewer that I would take an assignment.

And with the attitude you're spewing out, there would be fewer and fewer games on your schedule as time goes by, so don't worry - you can remain a coach, now. Or a keyboard umpire. Or a fanboy.