Forfeit of Game

[cookie]

Bear with me guys; I'm trying to make my way thru the 2010 NCAA Rule Book (though in bits and pieces). I appreciate all of your responses so far...

Another question regarding the UIC forfeiting a game, NCAA rules: I have always thought that if a player, coach, authorized team member gets ejected but refuses to leave the game, the UIC could have the game forfeited by that offending team. I don't quite understand what "...the game is suspended..." means in NCAA Rule 5-12-f.

NCAA 5-12-f:
"SECTION 12. A game shall be forfeited only as a last resort; however, a
game may be forfeited by the umpire-in-chief, after consultation with the
umpiring crew, in favor of the team not at fault in the following cases:

f. If the order for the removal of a player, coach or team personnel is not
obeyed, the game is suspended until the order of removal is corrected
(see 3-6-d)."

If I am reading this correctly, if a coach absolutely refuses to leave the field, the game is suspended (to a later date, NOT FORFEITED), even though the line in Section 12 says "the game may be fofeited by the UIC...in the following cases:" And there are a-thru-h cases listed.

Am I reading too much into this case (f)? Can the game be forfeited by the UIC if a coach just does not want to leave the field?

[bob jenkins]

If the coach doesn't leave, the umpires do.

Let the conference sort it out.

[cookie]

"...If the coach doesn't leave, the umpires do..."

Bob, I've never seen a game forfeited, but I have observed umpires (in Rec games) issue an ultimatum to a reluctant-to-leave ejected coach that if he doesn't leave the ballpark, the game would be forfeited.

So, in spite of the wording of the NCAA rule 15-12-f, the general practice would be for the umpires to leave the field if they encountered a recalcitrant ejected coach?

[JJ]

The NCAA said umpires are no longer to forfeit a game, rather (as Bob said), let the conference and NCAA sort it out. This was done to help deal with games where brawls broke out - in the good old days if you got enough ejections the game was a forfeit. Now, no matter how many ejections you get, you do not declare a forfeit. You just stop the game and report it to the appropriate NCAA, conference, and school athletic directors. They then have the option of "staggering" suspensions so games can continue to be played (since suspensions for brawling are multiple game suspentions).

JJ

[PeteBooth]

I agree with Bob.

As umpires it's not a good idea to answer questions about Forfitures player / coach punishment etc as that is left up to the leagues to enforce.

I live in NY and during the HS season if we toss a player/coach they MUST sit out the next game, HOWEVER, if ANY of the coaches says

"Pete can my player play in the next game, etc."

I simply say "Check with your AD". After the game I simply write up a brief report of the EJ and E-mail it in to my assignor who forwards it to the AD. I do NOT get involved with punsihments replaying of games etc.

As Bob said if we toss a coach and he refuses to leave we as umpires leave, send in a report and it's up to the league to determine if the game is replayed or not.

Pete Booth

[ozzy6900]

Umpires never forfeit a game, the offender does.

In amateur games, I always advise the umpires if the coach will not leave, quietly leave the field. The league will sort out the mess. Never give any ultimatums and no matter what the rules say, never forfeit a game. Leagues are notorious for not backing the umpires and coaches and parents can gang up on a pair of umpires. It isn't worth the trouble. Let the league deal with it.

[johnnyg08]

Here's a question related this...how many of you get paid before the game begins?

Right now, we're paid at the end of the game because many of the teams pay us with money they've earned from the gate. I would like to change that precedent, but it's tough to argue when they say they're using that day's gate money which obviously hasn't been collected by the time we have to be on the field.

What are some ways to negotiate around this? Thanks.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Here's a question related this...how many of you get paid before the game begins?

During the summer, my organization gets paid before the game. Depending on the league, either the home coach has all of it, or the home and away coach split it.

If you're working for the league (not an organization contracted to the league), it's going to be tough to change what's being done. If it's a contract, your organization can get the contract changed to state money is paid up-front.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Here's a question related this...how many of you get paid before the game begins?

Right now, we're paid at the end of the game because many of the teams pay us with money they've earned from the gate. I would like to change that precedent, but it's tough to argue when they say they're using that day's gate money which obviously hasn't been collected by the time we have to be on the field.

IMO, that's BS.

Have whoever collects the money pay you up-front and use the gate receipts to get reimbursed himself / herself.

[JJ]

I agree with Bob. They should set aside some of the money from the PREVIOUS game's gate to pay the umpires BEFORE the game....

JJ

[MD Longhorn]

Y'all are lucky. Generally, we get a check - usually in the mail... occasionally at the end of the day (peewee at least).

[DG]

Depends on what type of game working. I don't like getting paid after the game, because I am ready to leave and sometimes payee not too happy. It is rare to get paid after game, I am having hard time remembering a case. Regardless of when, I don't worry about it too much. I have never not been paid. That would result in assigner/word of mouth problem for getting umpires for future games. I got a check the mail today for a double header two weekends ago. I knew it was coming, like clockwork..

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by DG

sometimes payee not too happy.

What are you unhappy about?

[DG]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

What are you unhappy about?

Simple typo error was clearly obvious to all those who did NOT reply. This is what I get for not signing in first, so my ignore list will kick in.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by DG

Simple typo error was clearly obvious to all those who did NOT reply. This is what I get for not signing in first, so my ignore list will kick in.

Sorry about that, Shemp. I was wrong in thinking that you knew the difference between PAYER and PAYEE. You're now on my ignorant list...........