A LLWS Observation

[KJUmp]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;689905]

I am in JM's camp

1. How do you KNOW these umpires do not take their umpiring seriously?

2. I am going to assume (I know could be a BIG mistake) that you get paid for your services so you can afford to attend clinics, buy the best equipment available. LL is for free. I do not agree with it BUT that is the premise.

Also, even if selected who can actually get the time off from work to umpire these games in the first place.

During the Regionals / LLWS there are still select travel tournamnets going on where you can earn decent money working those games.



Have you ever been on Nat'l TV umpiring in front of millions of viewers with Replay being used?

If NOT then you have NO basis for your response UNLESS you have been there.

Don't get me wrong I think the entire process is a joke ESPECIALLY replay at a kids game BUT these umpires are under a great deal of pressure becasue basically they have no backing. WP has sold their soul so whenever there is a "Close" call there is someone present who will get the umpires attention.

Personally, after this year I do not know why any umpire would want to subject themselves to what's going on. A prime example was in Bristol Conn.

Pete Booth

+1

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by LMan

I don't know why they bother to make the initial call. *shrug*

Ha! I can see it now:

Close play at a base -- no call -- "Time!" -- go to monitor -- ruling is.... "He's out!"

[Mrumpiresir]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;689905]

I am in JM's camp

1. How do you KNOW these umpires do not take their umpiring seriously?

2. I am going to assume (I know could be a BIG mistake) that you get paid for your services so you can afford to attend clinics, buy the best equipment available. LL is for free. I do not agree with it BUT that is the premise.

Also, even if selected who can actually get the time off from work to umpire these games in the first place.

During the Regionals / LLWS there are still select travel tournamnets going on where you can earn decent money working those games.


Have you ever been on Nat'l TV umpiring in front of millions of viewers with Replay being used?

If NOT then you have NO basis for your response UNLESS you have been there.

Pete Booth

I know these umpires have not taken this seriously because they have apparently not educated themselves on the rules or the mechanis of a good umpire.

I have been on TV but not National TV, that's irrelevant. Once you step on the field, you call your game.

The basis for my response is If you are going to umpire, learn the rules. Learn proper mechanics.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

And this is opinion is based on what(?), the evaluations you did on the umpires for all eight US regionals? I'm sure you had a real good look at all aspects of their work from the comfort of your couch as you watched the games on TV.

Give these guys a break, they're umpires, just like the rest of us. Treat them with some respect. These guys get slammed on their work because they're "volunteers" who ump LL, and as such, aren't as highly trained or have as much "big game experience" as us non LL guys and we would do a much better job. Yet, none of us would take an assignment to a LL Regional because we wouldn't get paid.

Pfft. Did you watch? Holy cow. The opinion that these guys were awful is based on the fact that they were awful. The fact that they work for free seems to absolve them of the responsibility to not suck in your book. Not in mine. Bad calls happen. But consistent bad positioning, bad mechanics, unnecessary overhustle, lack of rules knowledge, etc. (One thing I will give them is that I haven't seen any laziness at all - but I guess that's a little easier working just one game with a 6 man crew).

[MD Longhorn]

Oh, and a PS about television. I've been there. Once. It was a HUGE discussion point in the locker room before the game. We were definitely more on edge before the game. (And this was football, not baseball or softball). But those telling you that once the game starts you work your game are correct. Once we got into the pregame rhythm it became rote, and once the game started we'd forgotten entirely about the cameras.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Pfft. Did you watch? Holy cow. The opinion that these guys were awful is based on the fact that they were awful. The fact that they work for free seems to absolve them of the responsibility to not suck in your book. Not in mine. Bad calls happen. But consistent bad positioning, bad mechanics, unnecessary overhustle, lack of rules knowledge, etc. (One thing I will give them is that I haven't seen any laziness at all - but I guess that's a little easier working just one game with a 6 man crew).

Don't tell me what's "in my book." Don't presume you know what I look for from myself as an umpire, or what I look for from partners. You have no idea what type of umpire I am. One thing that you should know, it's not my style to trash other umpires or to not treat them with the respect any fellow umpire deserves.

JM, Pete, Rich have all posted replies that I think put the whole LLBB regional and WS umpiring in the right perspective.

My point is that this is an organization (LLBB) who's leagues and post season tournaments the large majority of us here on the board do not work. It's a level of BB we may have been involved in at one time, but we no longer work small diamond BB for whatever reason.

So unless there are some of us here who harbor some deep desire to be working an LL regional of WS, to be standing in the place of these guys are this week, why all the criticism?

They're Little League umpires. LLBB is a different gig, we all know that (or should anyway), it's why we don't/won't work it. That's our choice. The guys we've seen on ESPN made the choice to work LLBB, let them umpire.

You want to slam LLBB and the powers and the whole replay thing fine, have at it, they deserve it....not the umps.

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Don't tell me what's "in my book." Don't presume you know what I look for from myself as an umpire, or what I look for from partners. You have no idea what type of umpire I am. One thing that you should know, it's not my style to trash other umpires or to not treat them with the respect any fellow umpire deserves.

JM, Pete, Rich have all posted replies that I think put the whole LLBB regional and WS umpiring in the right perspective.

My point is that this is an organization (LLBB) who's leagues and post season tournaments the large majority of us here on the board do not work. It's a level of BB we may have been involved in at one time, but we no longer work small diamond BB for whatever reason.

So unless there are some of us here who harbor some deep desire to be working an LL regional of WS, to be standing in the place of these guys are this week, why all the criticism?

They're Little League umpires. LLBB is a different gig, we all know that (or should anyway), it's why we don't/won't work it. That's our choice. The guys we've seen on ESPN made the choice to work LLBB, let them umpire.

You want to slam LLBB and the powers and the whole replay thing fine, have at it, they deserve it....not the umps.

Fact is, those umpires did not perform well and as a result we will all have to live it down. There is no way you can defend their performance.

So, all the criticism is due to the lack of basic umpiring abilities exhibited by some of these guys. I think it has been correctly stated that getting a gig like this, even though they are volunteers, does not excuse their lack of basic mechanics and rules knowledge.

If you think this is ok.... well that's a sad statement of the expected qualities of those umpires.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Don't tell me what's "in my book." Don't presume you know what I look for from myself as an umpire, or what I look for from partners. You have no idea what type of umpire I am. One thing that you should know, it's not my style to trash other umpires or to not treat them with the respect any fellow umpire deserves.

JM, Pete, Rich have all posted replies that I think put the whole LLBB regional and WS umpiring in the right perspective.

My point is that this is an organization (LLBB) who's leagues and post season tournaments the large majority of us here on the board do not work. It's a level of BB we may have been involved in at one time, but we no longer work small diamond BB for whatever reason.

So unless there are some of us here who harbor some deep desire to be working an LL regional of WS, to be standing in the place of these guys are this week, why all the criticism?

They're Little League umpires. LLBB is a different gig, we all know that (or should anyway), it's why we don't/won't work it. That's our choice. The guys we've seen on ESPN made the choice to work LLBB, let them umpire.

You want to slam LLBB and the powers and the whole replay thing fine, have at it, they deserve it....not the umps.

My impression is that most of us are not happy with the leadership of LL Baseball for putting the umpires in an untenable situation more than the umpires themselves. That is my belief.

However, having said that you can't ignore the fact that some of these umpires have not done the quality work we want them to do, or they themselves want to do. the point of the matter is that the LLWS umpires represent all of us as umpires, we are all a brotherhood whether we like or not, and their ability to get the call right (or blow it sky high) are a reflection on us as a group. I want those guys to have a good time, do a good job, and enjoy themselves. Do you really think they are having a great time when the TV lens is looking over their shoulder every minute, and their partners blow calls because they are not doing what they should be doing on the field? And all the time the LL leadership is turning them into a tool of ESPN to throw all umpires under the bus?

I can see Joe Blow working 1B in an ESPN game, and his family friends and the like are watching and taping it too. Then Joe makes a mistake he shouldn't have, and the tape doesn't lie; it shows he missed the call from here to eternity, and he was not mechanically sound, which led to the missed call.

So now this LLWS umpire is overturned by replay, let's review:

1. ESPN has thrown him under the bus: "Well Joe Blow of poorhouse, anywhere, the 1B umpire just blew that call badly, replay will overturn it."
2. LL has thrown him under the bus again: "We have replay because we want to get the calls right (i.e. 'We don't trust our umpires and Joe Blow's missed call is a prime example as to why')."
3. Now, every time Joe has a wacker the rest of the event he has fans, the coaches, and everyone but his dog questioning him and his competence. Even if he is right, he will be assumed wrong until replay shows everyone he is right.
4. Then he gets to go home, and everyone says, "hey great call you blew on TV at the LLWS."

Yeah, KJU, you have some good points, but the other side does too. Listen to them.

[KJUmp]

[QUOTE=Mrumpiresir;690174]Fact is,
I haven't seen you post one quantifiable fact, just opinion.

those umpires did not perform well and as a result we will all have to live it down.
Live what down? With whom? Who cares? You think in the next game you work a coach is having LLWS flashbacks as he watches you work the game?

There is no way you can defend their performance.
Go back and read my posts. I haven't said anything about their performance on the field...positive or negative. What I have said is to show them some respect and to stop slamming them.

So, all the criticism is due to the lack of basic umpiring abilities exhibited by some of these guys. I think it has been correctly stated that getting a gig like this, even though they are volunteers,

does not excuse their lack of basic mechanics and rules knowledge.
They call ball, strike, fair, foul, safe and out, they cut into the diamond when the ball is hit to the OF. That's basic LL mechanics, there's nothing lacking. You might not like how they do it...but hey you're not a LL ump.
Lack of rules knowledge? Care to be specific?

If you think this is ok
I'm not their tournament UIC. It's his opinion that matters.

.... well that's a sad statement of the expected qualities of those umpires.[/QUOTE]
And just what are those expected qualities? Obviously they're different than LLBB's.

[JRutledge]

Anyone that knows they are going on TV and goes on TV anyway (which this entire process is obvious they are going to be on TV) is going to get criticized. If you do not want to be criticized, then do not go on TV. If these are "volunteers" then they are volunteering to be on TV. Having been on TV several times myself I did not seek that opportunity, but knew it was realistic if I was going to accept certain assignments or work in the post season. And anything you do on TV is subject to criticism. It comes with the territory. But unlike a situation where I have been on TV, I did not know for sure I would even get the opportunity. These umpires knew they were going to be on TV somewhere in this day and age. If it were me I would do things to not look like I do not know what I am doing. I know it is Little League, but the adults cannot be that naive to think no one is watching.

Peace

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

My impression is that most of us are not happy with the leadership of LL Baseball for putting the umpires in an untenable situation more than the umpires themselves. That is my belief.

However, having said that you can't ignore the fact that some of these umpires have not done the quality work we want them to do, or they themselves want to do. the point of the matter is that the LLWS umpires represent all of us as umpires, we are all a brotherhood whether we like or not, and their ability to get the call right (or blow it sky high) are a reflection on us as a group. I want those guys to have a good time, do a good job, and enjoy themselves. Do you really think they are having a great time when the TV lens is looking over their shoulder every minute, and their partners blow calls because they are not doing what they should be doing on the field? And all the time the LL leadership is turning them into a tool of ESPN to throw all umpires under the bus?

I can see Joe Blow working 1B in an ESPN game, and his family friends and the like are watching and taping it too. Then Joe makes a mistake he shouldn't have, and the tape doesn't lie; it shows he missed the call from here to eternity, and he was not mechanically sound, which led to the missed call.

So now this LLWS umpire is overturned by replay, let's review:

1. ESPN has thrown him under the bus: "Well Joe Blow of poorhouse, anywhere, the 1B umpire just blew that call badly, replay will overturn it."
2. LL has thrown him under the bus again: "We have replay because we want to get the calls right (i.e. 'We don't trust our umpires and Joe Blow's missed call is a prime example as to why')."
3. Now, every time Joe has a wacker the rest of the event he has fans, the coaches, and everyone but his dog questioning him and his competence. Even if he is right, he will be assumed wrong until replay shows everyone he is right.
4. Then he gets to go home, and everyone says, "hey great call you blew on TV at the LLWS."

Yeah, KJU, you have some good points, but the other side does too. Listen to them.

I've got no problem with anything you said. You've represented "the other side" with a great analysis of what's been happening over the past week.
You took the time to look at in a rational manner and made several excellent points. None of which were "these guys are terrible, incompetent, they suck, etc." You displayed some empathy to these guys, and in doing so, showed them some respect. When the discussion is on that level, I have no problem listening.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Don't tell me what's "in my book." Don't presume you know what I look for from myself as an umpire, or what I look for from partners. You have no idea what type of umpire I am. One thing that you should know, it's not my style to trash other umpires or to not treat them with the respect any fellow umpire deserves.

JM, Pete, Rich have all posted replies that I think put the whole LLBB regional and WS umpiring in the right perspective.

My point is that this is an organization (LLBB) who's leagues and post season tournaments the large majority of us here on the board do not work. It's a level of BB we may have been involved in at one time, but we no longer work small diamond BB for whatever reason.

So unless there are some of us here who harbor some deep desire to be working an LL regional of WS, to be standing in the place of these guys are this week, why all the criticism?

They're Little League umpires. LLBB is a different gig, we all know that (or should anyway), it's why we don't/won't work it. That's our choice. The guys we've seen on ESPN made the choice to work LLBB, let them umpire.

You want to slam LLBB and the powers and the whole replay thing fine, have at it, they deserve it....not the umps.

While I may have perspective, I find the performance of many of the umpires embarrassing. I think there are enough top-notch umpires out there working LLBB that they could staff the WS with decent umpires -- instead they treat the WS assignment as more of a gold watch for lifelong service to LL rather than any indication of umpiring ability. It's a shame. It's also not going to change.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

does not excuse their lack of basic mechanics and rules knowledge.
They call ball, strike, fair, foul, safe and out, they cut into the diamond when the ball is hit to the OF. That's basic LL mechanics, there's nothing lacking. You might not like how they do it...but hey you're not a LL ump.
Lack of rules knowledge? Care to be specific?

I love watching all the base umpires in a 6-umpire system mindlessly pivoting into the infield for no good reason. I don't applaud that, however.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

While I may have perspective, I find the performance of many of the umpires embarrassing.
I think there are enough top-notch umpires out there working LLBB that they could staff the WS with decent umpires
Absolutely there are

-- instead they treat the WS assignment as more of a gold watch for lifelong service to LL rather than any indication of umpiring ability. It's a shame. It's also not going to change.

Agree, and that's the long term problem.
The WS assignment has always been the DC's & WP's gold watch. It's also a bargining chip to be used by the higher ups to get support for ideas and programs in other areas of LLBB which have nothing to do with umpiring.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I love watching all the base umpires in a 6-umpire system mindlessly pivoting into the infield for no good reason. I don't applaud that, however.

Why do they use 6 anyways...the homerun is only 120 feet away.

Another missed call last night in the Ohio/Hawaii game at second base...these calls aren't that hard move to get an angle.