A LLWS Observation

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Matt

If LL was true to the principles it claimed, I would have no problem doing an LL regional for free. It is not, so it does not deserve a free service.

Well said. At this point, it's strictly a business decision in my opinion. You're not going to get the best umpires, you're going to get the best umpires that will work for free.

We all have Smitty in our areas of the country who will work for next to nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing those of us who will do a game here or there for a reduced or comp'd game fee...or even the little league umpires who choose to work for free (that's your decision) but it's tough to watch them time after time, making critical mistakes on ESPN...and for the casual fan out there, they see the shenanigans pulled by the coaches toward the umpires and the Wizard of OZ behind the curtain for rulings...it doesn't make the rest of us look very good.

Or some might say...it makes the rest of us look very good.

None of us are immune from missing a call here or there, I'm not dumb enough to state otherwise.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

And LLMan took a cheap shot ot the LL umps - implying that they blew it because they were incompetent. I was merely pointing out that anyone can blow one.

If you merely want to point out that anyone can blow one, you should compare the LL umpires to someone at their level, you for example.

To compare them to trained professionals with years of major league experience is laughable.

[UmpJM]

Mrumpiresir,

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

At this level you need to have the best umpires available. I saw enough in the five or six games I watched to say that these guys were nowhere near the quality that would be expected.

They are not umpires like the rest of us. And it's not about being paid. I have worked hard, have gone to clinics and strive to be better every time out. These guys exhibited a lack of training and a lack of rules knowledge. Did you watch those games? Incorrect base award, Base on balls on ball three, very poor strike zone, all in one game.

Give me a break. Read some other forums and other post. I am not alone in my opinion. These guys were not good.

I find your commentary to be shallow, crass, uninformed, and, ultimately, of little value.

Perhaps you could post some unedited video of you working your first game on (inter)nationally televised TV.

Do you think you would be nervous? I would. Plus, they have to deal with that new instant replay bull$hit. How would you like to have THAT in your first televised game?

While I would agree that some of the umpiring has been less than excellent, I think you paint with a very broad, and woefully indiscriminate, brush.

I have certainly seen some "blown" calls, and, I'll admit, some of the "idiosyncracies" I've seen in mechanics kind of make me roll my eyes.

However, there are a lot of things I haven't seen as well. I haven't seen ANYBODY who didn't care how he was dressed (although I don't subscribe to some of the sartorial conventions that have been adopted). I haven't seen anybody who looked like he's "mailing it in". Everyone I've seen has seemed pretty focused and engaged - pretty much every time you get a glimpse of them on TV. Probably more "over-hustle" than under.

Most of the "mistakes" I have seen seemed like "overexcited" mistakes - like guys are just a tad extra nervous being on TV and everything and they "rush" a little bit. Some of the mechanics seem a bit exaggerrated to me, but so what?

Although LL Inc. and ESPN have found a way to monetize this thing to an amazing and disturbing degree (I concur with Matt re: the "values" question), this is still 12 year old baseball. On a 60' diamond with closed bases. It's REALLY not that big a deal.

I applaud all those umpires who got the games, I commiserate with them on their missed calls (& I've got a ton of advice if they're interested... ), and I congratulate them for all the rest they got right. I hope they had a blast and made new friends. And had fun.

JM

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mrumpiresir,

I find your commentary to be shallow, crass, uninformed, and, ultimately, of little value. Perhaps you could post some unedited video of you working your first game on (inter)nationally televised TV.

Do you think you would be nervous? I would. Plus, they have to deal with that new instant replay bull$hit. How would you like to have THAT in your first televised game?

While I would agree that some of the umpiring has been less than excellent, I think you paint with a very broad, and woefully indiscriminate, brush.

I have certainly seen some "blown" calls, and, I'll admit, some of the "idiosyncracies" I've seen in mechanics kind of make me roll my eyes.

However, there are a lot of things I haven't seen as well. I haven't seen ANYBODY who didn't care how he was dressed (although I don't subscribe to some of the sartorial conventions that have been adopted). I haven't seen anybody who looked like he's "mailing it in". Everyone I've seen has seem pretty focused and engaged - pretty much every time you get a glimpse of them on TV.

Most of the "misstakes" I have seen seemed like "overexcited" mistakes - like guys are just a tad extra nervous being on TV and everything and they "rush" a little bit. Some of the mechanics seem a bit exaggerrated to me, but so what?

Although LL Inc. and ESPN have found a way to monetize this thing to an amazing and disturbing degree (I concur with Matt re: the "values" question), this is still 12 year old baseball. On a 60' diamond with closed bases. It's REALLY not that big a deal.

I applaud all those umpires who got the games, I commiserate with them on their missed calls (& I've got a ton of advice if they're interested... ), and I congratulate them for all the rest they got right. I hope they had a blast and made new friends. And had fun.

JM

Crass maybe. Uninformed and shallow, get a grip. I expect all umpires at every level to work toward excellence as we all should. Study the rules and mechanics and learn how to umpire. I guess I am expecting more from these guys.

I take my umpiring seriously and expect others to do the same but it's obvious these guys have not studied rules or mechanics to the degree that is required of someone who should be assigned this level of ball.

Forgive me for being a perfectionist but these kids deserve good umpiring and they did not get it.

I have worked big venues and when I step on the field, there is no nervousness. I have confidence in my ability.

I regret that you have a problem with my post, but be more specific and I will address those issues.

[rookieblue]

I'm thinking UmpJM does have a very firm grip. The doctor diagnosed precisely.

This is Little League. "The kids deserve it." Just like they deserve the travesty of "personal profiles," and "favorite foods" and - God help us all, instant reply.

Little League needs to regain its bearings. It is a ship adrift, morally.

[jkumpire]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but as I was turning a channel yesterday, I thought I saw a graphic posted that said six calls were appealed to replay, and three were overturned. Please let me know if I am wrong about this.

If the replay booth is overturning half of the calls it gets, then there is a real problem with LLWS umpires in PA, or the replay system is a farce. What calls went to the replay booth?

[LMan]

I reread my comment and decided yes, I was somewhat harsh. Of course we have all kicked a call or three in our time (except Tee )...and no, Ive never had the eyes of Frosted Flakes World boring holes in me whilst I was on the field.

But it still makes me think that LL is, for whatever reasons, unable/unwilling to disturb the seniority/spoils system that it has had for years in selecting the crews for the Big Show.....but obviously they perceive an issue, or there wouldn't be a replay program in the first place.

Maybe this is all they can think up as a work-around for their selection system...trying to use technology to band-aid poor personnel policy.


But, I'm not that familiar with how the LL Big Dogs are chosen beyond what I read here, so perhaps my perception is incorrect.

On another positive note, the New Jersey/Hawaii game was excellently played, a treat to watch. The NJ play catching the foul ball/cutting down the runner at the plate was superb.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

If the replay booth is overturning half of the calls it gets, then there is a real problem with LLWS umpires in PA,

Why? If we believe ESPN, then 20% of "close" plays would have been overturned in MLB. And, my guess is that if a similar review system were in place, that a percentage greater than that would be overturned.

Plus, the sample size (6 plays in LLWS) is too small to draw any significant conclusions.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Plus, the sample size (6 plays in LLWS) is too small to draw any significant conclusions.

Very true. However, only 1 of the 3 overturns were close. The out call at third yesterday was AWFUL (not to mention U3 was out of position).

I think we all agree 6 umpires (plus however many cameras) is WAY too many for this tiny field... but has anyone else noticed the outfield umpires chasing the ball on overthrows? Dude - where are you going and what are you looking for. Ball's on the ground - no need to follow the fielder to the ball.

Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)

[asdf]

Little League is a joke from top to bottom. (Includes parents, coaches, sponsors, umpires.....anyone involved)

- They have pimped the kids for TV dollars.

- They instituted a bogus 85 pitch count to make it look like they care about the kids................then they let the kids throw curve balls on 57 of the 85.

- Instant replay ? You gotta be kidding me !! I don't know what's worse, the fact that they instituted instant replay or the fact that they needed to !

- Miking coaches and umpires ? See above !!

- Team selection is as political as any process around.


Way to teach 'em young !! Got a whole new group of prima donna's on the way.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)

Yep...plate guy stays home. Nice to have 6 if you can stay out of each other's way....

JJ

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Very true. However, only 1 of the 3 overturns were close. The out call at third yesterday was AWFUL (not to mention U3 was out of position).

I think we all agree 6 umpires (plus however many cameras) is WAY too many for this tiny field... but has anyone else noticed the outfield umpires chasing the ball on overthrows? Dude - where are you going and what are you looking for. Ball's on the ground - no need to follow the fielder to the ball.

Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)

Over the 9 years I was involved in LL umpiring and doing the whole deal (local league UIC, regional umpire school, annual regional clinic, umpiring a regional) I was told the following about LLBB 6 man:

1) They first went to 6 man so every umpire at the regional got a TV game, nobody got left out. And face it, if you're an ump at any level being on national TV on ESPN is a big deal. Note: Back then they didn't go to 6 man until the semis and the finals.

2) When they went to 6 man for all regional games it was to (a) overall give umpires more games in the tournament (b) a way to "hide" a umpire who maybe wasn't at the "level" he needed to be at as they moved deeper into the tournament, yet still give him assignments. (c) to eliminate problems that occurred far to often with rotations when a base umpire went out.*

3) The instructions we were given regarding 6 man at the pre-tournament clinic for my regional was that the base umpires were not to go out...PERIOD. Trouble in the outfield would be handled by either the RFU or LFU. Trouble in CF? If the CF was moving to his left, RFU's call; to his right, LFU's call; dead center going back, RFU. Why? If it wasn't caught and there was a chance of a throw to 3rd, they wanted the LFU on his line to assist should there be an overthrow to 3rd.
The 2BU was told his job was to get his tail into the infield on any ball hit to the OF.

*There was a situation that occurred in a LLWS game (prior to my regional in 2002) where in a 6 man crew with R1 on 1B, there was a ball hit to CF and the 2BU got him self "caught" between "should I go out or should I cut in?"....he got stuck and kind of turned around in no man's land and had no look at R1 missing 2B by a lot. After that they changed to the 2BU does not go out mechanic. We were told the story by our regional UIC and his staff at our clinic.

3)

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by asdf

Little League is a joke from top to bottom. (Includes parents, coaches, sponsors, umpires.....anyone involved)

- They have pimped the kids for TV dollars.

- They instituted a bogus 85 pitch count to make it look like they care about the kids................then they let the kids throw curve balls on 57 of the 85.

- Instant replay ? You gotta be kidding me !! I don't know what's worse, the fact that they instituted instant replay or the fact that they needed to !

- Miking coaches and umpires ? See above !!

- Team selection is as political as any process around.


Way to teach 'em young !! Got a whole new group of prima donna's on the way.

The enitre LL bylaws could be replaced with just 4 rules:

1. Steve Keener knows what's best for baseball.
2. Steve Keener knows what's best for kids.
3. Steve Keener is never wrong.
4. Steve Keener is always right.

[54outs]

3) The instructions we were given regarding 6 man at the pre-tournament clinic for my regional was that the base umpires were not to go out...PERIOD. Trouble in the outfield would be handled by either the RFU or LFU. Trouble in CF? If the CF was moving to his left, RFU's call; to his right, LFU's call; dead center going back, RFU. Why? If it wasn't caught and there was a chance of a throw to 3rd, they wanted the LFU on his line to assist should there be an overthrow to 3rd.
The 2BU was told his job was to get his tail into the infield on any ball hit to the OF.

This explains why on every "trouble" ball hit to CF, U3 always had his head down and was busting inside. I told my wife that I wished the CCA manual had it diagrammed like that, so I could "hide" the #4 that I've never worked with!

[MD Longhorn]

Know what ... I have trouble envisioning a "trouble" ball on this field with 6 guys. I mean, first, what's the maximum distance from an umpire? 75 feet or so? Second - who cares if they see it at all - we have replay!