dropped third strike

[calt]

nfhs. bases loaded, batter strikes out, catcher drops the ball. Batter becomes a runner and heads for first. catcher picks up the ball and steps on home plate thinking he has a force.
How do you explain this?

[biggravy]

Huh? Your losing me. How many outs?

[Mrumpiresir]

With less than two outs, batter is out, next batter. With two outs, stepping on the plate is a perfectly legal force. Three outs. What don't you understand about that?

[Sven K]

A simple but often misunderstood rule. Parents all yelling "but first base is occupied! first base is occupied!".

One crew member and I were discussing the origin of the rule and he sumised that as a defense you have to "earn" that third out. Made good sense to me.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Sven K

A simple but often misunderstood rule. Parents all yelling "but first base is occupied! first base is occupied!".

One crew member and I were discussing the origin of the rule and he sumised that as a defense you have to "earn" that third out. Made good sense to me.

I think part of it is also to prevent the defense from dropping a third strike on purpose to get a cheap double play. I think that's another reason it applies with only two outs.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Sven K

One crew member and I were discussing the origin of the rule and he sumised that as a defense you have to "earn" that third out. Made good sense to me.

I always thought you earned the out when the batter earned strike three.

IMO, it's one of the worst rules in sports when a strike can be treated the same as a fairly batted ball.

[UmpJM]

bainsey,

You don't understand the history of the game and its rules.

From the JEA discussion of 6.09(b):

Historical Notes: Under the original Major League Code (1876), a batsman who struck at and missed a third
strike OR failed to strike at a good ball for the called third strike was obligated to run to first base "... as in the case
of hitting a fair ball."

The Rules of 1887 specified that the batsman became a base runner "... instantly after four strikes have been
declared by the umpire." This four strike provision lasted only one year.

As late as the 1940's, the batter was entitled to advance (with liability) after three strikes had been called by
the umpire. By the time of the recodification in 1950, a provision had been added that stipulated that the batter
could advance (with liability) after three strikes had been called when the third strike was not caught unless there
is a runner on first base with not more than one out.

Essentially, this changed the previous rule in two ways: (1) The batter could legally advance as a runner only
if the third strike was NOT caught; and (2) The batter was not permitted to advance if first base was occupied with
less than two outs.

In 1956, the wording was simplified to its present form.

JM

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by calt

nfhs. bases loaded, batter strikes out, catcher drops the ball. Batter becomes a runner and heads for first. catcher picks up the ball and steps on home plate thinking he has a force.
How do you explain this?

If there are two outs, the catcher is right - R3 is forced at home. If there are less than 2 outs, the batter is out and no one is forced.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by calt

nfhs. bases loaded, batter strikes out, catcher drops the ball. Batter becomes a runner and heads for first. catcher picks up the ball and steps on home plate thinking he has a force.
How do you explain this?

Who am I explaining it to? What needs explaining? I think I explain this by handing you a rulebook.

[TwoBits]

Bainsey, are you a Little League umpire? Seems like I see the most confusion in D3K rules from those with a Little League background.

[DG]

I had a dropped 3rd strike a couple weeks ago with base loaded with 1 out. I called batter out, R3 races home and throw from F2 to F1 beats him and I call him out too. Offense mgr confused, I explained. Couple innings later, bases loaded, 2 outs. After 2 strikes catcher asks me if the ball gets away from him can he just tag the plate when he gets the ball, and I say yes. Smart catcher. Earlier event may have been school.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DG

I had a dropped 3rd strike a couple weeks ago with base loaded with 1 out. I called batter out, R3 races home and throw from F2 to F1 beats him and I call him out too. Offense mgr confused, I explained. Couple innings later, bases loaded, 2 outs. After 2 strikes catcher asks me if the ball gets away from him can he just tag the plate when he gets the ball, and I say yes. Smart catcher. Earlier event may have been school.

I had a similar (but opposite!) sitch last year. Bases loaded, 1 out. U3K, batter is out. Everyone takes off. F2 retrieves ball, steps on home and looks at me. Seeing me do nothing, F2 proceeds to stomp on the plate, showing me the ball. Runner from third slides in, I rule safe, F2 yells, "WTF!!!" and ejects himself.

The nice thing, I suppose, was that coach didn't argue with me at all and proceeded to rip his cleanup hitting catcher an extended new one.

[TwoBits]

Several years ago while umpiring low-level high school, D3K with a very large, slow-moving R1 and no outs. R1 takes off for second thinking he is being forced to advance on the D3K and is tagged out well short of second. Coach calming explains to him in the dugout the rule and that he wasn't forced to advance.

Two weeks later, I have the same team with the same situation and the same kid at first. Another D3K, and there he goes again! He gets thrown out again. This time, the coach wasn't so calm with him.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

I had a dropped 3rd strike a couple weeks ago with base loaded with 1 out. I called batter out, R3 races home and throw from F2 to F1 beats him and I call him out too. Offense mgr confused, I explained. Couple innings later, bases loaded, 2 outs. After 2 strikes catcher asks me if the ball gets away from him can he just tag the plate when he gets the ball, and I say yes. Smart catcher. Earlier event may have been school.

The earlier event was not really related, was it?

Please, please, please post again and tell us you didn't treat the first situation as a force play at the plate.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Please, please, please post again and tell us you didn't treat the first situation as a force play at the plate.

Yes, please tell us. Inquiring minds want to know.