Dropped 3rd Strike

[rwest]

In FP ASA Softball, if a batter swings at and misses the third strike that hits the ground before crossing the plate, if the catcher drops the ball, does the batter become a batter-runner or is he/she out?

Does anyone know if the dropped 3 strike rule is the same for Federation Baseball?

Thanks!

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by rwest
In FP ASA Softball, if a batter swings at and misses the third strike that hits the ground before crossing the plate, if the catcher drops the ball, does the batter become a batter-runner or is he/she out?

If the ball hits the ground before the catcher catches it, then the batter becomes a batter runner if it is the third strike with less than two outs and first base is unoccupied, or if it is two outs and first base is occupied or unoccupied. ASA Rule 8:1:B.

Does anyone know if the dropped 3 strike rule is the same for Federation Baseball?

It is for NFHS FP softball. Can't say for baseball. I am sure some of the folks on the baseball board can tell you.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Note that Scott stated the the ball hit the ground before the catcher caught it.

The "name" of the rule is misleading. Any ball not caught in flight by the catcher is considered a D3K (or U3K, as I prefer) when applicable.

IOW, once it hits the ground, it is irrelevant if the catcher actually catches the ball.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Note that Scott stated the the ball hit the ground before the catcher caught it.

The "name" of the rule is misleading. Any ball not caught in flight by the catcher is considered a D3K (or U3K, as I prefer) when applicable.

IOW, once it hits the ground, it is irrelevant if the catcher actually catches the ball.

I have often wondered why the rules gurus don't call it "an uncaught third strike."

[rwest]

Rule 8-1-b-2 says "There are two outs and first base is occupied". But Scott said that with two outs first base can be occupied or unoccupied. I don't see that in the rule book. Am I missing something?

Thanks!
Randall

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by rwest
Rule 8-1-b-2 says "There are two outs and first base is occupied". But Scott said that with two outs first base can be occupied or unoccupied. I don't see that in the rule book. Am I missing something?

Thanks!
Randall

Whenever first base is unoccupied, whether it be with zero, one, or two outs, the batter can advance on an uncaught third strike. The only time they can advance when first is occupied is with two outs.

[rwest]

Its been said many times that there are no stupid questions. I may be challenging that rule with this quesiton, but here goes.

Mike, you said "Any ball not caught in flight by the catcher is considered a D3K (or U3K, as I prefer) when applicable."

By "when applicable" I assume you mean if the batter swings and misses the ball for strike 3 or he/she is caught watching strike three cross the plate. In the latter case, the umpire would have to have ruled the pitch was a strike.

Are there any other "applicable's" I need to know about?

The reason for my questions is I'm heading up a group of umpires (volunteers) at my Church. We are doing baseball and fast pitch softball. Many of my volunteers have not called ball before. I do ASA Slow Pitch and have not done fast pitch (yet). So I need to understand these rules in order to pass them on to my umpires.

Thanks!

[chuck chopper]

Fast pitch & baseball are the same with regard to a pitch in the dirt. If it is swung at for strike three, then it is considered a dropped 3rd strike. Batter cannot go if first is occupied EXCEPT when there are two outs. With two outs it does not matter whether someone is on first or not..you can go. The umpire mechanic is to call strike 3.
Same situation applies if it is not swung at..called strike 3, and the catcher drops it.
I have had catchers throw it on the ground after I call strike 3 for the 3rd out, then the batter runs up the line and by then the first baseman has left the field.

[Hugo Tafurst2]

Originally posted by rwest
(snip)
Mike, you said "Any ball not caught in flight by the catcher is considered a D3K (or U3K, as I prefer) when applicable."

By "when applicable" I assume you mean if the batter swings and misses the ball for strike 3 or he/she is caught watching strike three cross the plate. In the latter case, the umpire would have to have ruled the pitch was a strike.

Are there any other "applicable's" I need to know about?

(snip

By "when applicable", I believe he meant if the conditions allow.
That is:
1st base unoccupied (anytime)
1st base occupied (only when there are two outs)

Hope that helps...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by rwest
Its been said many times that there are no stupid questions. I may be challenging that rule with this quesiton, but here goes.

Mike, you said "Any ball not caught in flight by the catcher is considered a D3K (or U3K, as I prefer) when applicable."

By "when applicable" I assume you mean if the batter swings and misses the ball for strike 3 or he/she is caught watching strike three cross the plate. In the latter case, the umpire would have to have ruled the pitch was a strike.

"When applicable" means that the pitch WAS a third strike and the occupation status of 1B was favorable for the conditions of a batter advancing on a U3K.

[greymule]

OK, rwest. How would you rule if a 2-strike pitch hits the ground, the batter swings and ticks it, and it goes directly into the catcher's mitt?

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by rwest
Rule 8-1-b-2 says "There are two outs and first base is occupied". But Scott said that with two outs first base can be occupied or unoccupied. I don't see that in the rule book. Am I missing something?
Thanks!
Randall

It's not you that is missing something, it's the book. Many of us have known about this "hole" for a while, but we have no pipeline to get it corrected.

-----------
wrt Scott's "I have often wondered why the rules gurus don't call it "an uncaught third strike." ", I guess that means I'm not a guru as I switched to U3K about a year ago. But then I don't call it "uncaught third strike" because I usually can't type that.

drop the dropped

[Hugo Tafurst2]

Originally posted by greymule
OK, rwest. How would you rule if a 2-strike pitch hits the ground, the batter swings and ticks it, and it goes directly into the catcher's mitt?

I've read debates (on the baseball boards) on this topic that would make Hanity & Combs seem like a library discussion!

At any rate:
-even numbered days of the week, I'm ruling FOUL TIP, batter's out.
-odd numbered days, STRIKE, uncaught.....

LOL

actually, I'm partial to the foul tip.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
OK, rwest. How would you rule if a 2-strike pitch hits the ground, the batter swings and ticks it, and it goes directly into the catcher's mitt?

I would rule irrelevant.

[chuck chopper]

I don't like this play, however if a 3rd strike dropped is then hit by the bat as part of the forward or backward part of a swing it seems that we now should have a dead ball foul. I really wanted this to be a simple "FOUL TIP" but I just can't justify it in my head.