Dropped 3rd strike

[TriggerMN]

Runner on third, one out. Batter swings and misses at strike three, which is dropped. The batter takes four steps towards his dugout, and then realizes the ball was dropped. He then starts to run to 1st base. I call him out as he begins to run, because in my judgement, he had given himself up by heading back to the dugout.

Now the fun part. If I'm reading the rule correctly, 7.4.1 says the batter can run AT ANY POINT as long as he remains in live ball territory. However, at our state rules meeting in March, I could swear that the clinician there said once he gives himself up, he's out (somebody had asked about the play during the meeting). A couple of my fellow umpires seem to remember him going over this as well.

Could someone please verify the correct ruling here for me? And what do you do in this situation, where the rulebook says one thing, but the state clinician tells you another?

Also, doesn't it seem odd that the batter would be allowed to walk all the way back to his dugout, even to the end of the dugout closest to the 1st base bag, and THEN take off for first? Is there a good reason for this?

[TwoBits]

If you are talking FED, check casebook 8.1.1 Situation B.

There has been a recent rule change in OBR stating that the batter is now out on a D3K when he leaves the dirt area surrounding home plate.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by TriggerMN

Could someone please verify the correct ruling here for me? And what do you do in this situation, where the rulebook says one thing, but the state clinician tells you another?

When the coach calmly walks out and politely asks for a rules interp.
would you be more comfortable standing on the Fed. rulebook or saying mr. clinician said so? And do you think the coach knows or even cares who Mr. clinician is and what he said?
Remember, the defense has just as much responsibility here to make the put out as the BR does in attempting first.
As a reminder, make sure you your mechanics are correct. Your signal for strike 3 has to be different than your out mechanic. Leave no doubt in anybodys mind what you are calling. strike 3 and out. Or strike 3 only.

[TriggerMN]

FWIW, coaches are also required to attend the same rules meetings that umpires do.

And yes, FED rules here. I will look at 8.1.1. Thanks.

[SanDiegoSteve]

In FED, the BR is not out until either he or 1st base is tagged or does not make an attempt to go to 1st base within a reasonable amount of time if:

1) he does not reach 1st base by the time of the next pitch.

or

2) he reaches his bench or dugout area.

or

3) the infielders have left the infield at the end of a half-inning.

[nickrego]

I try to make sure a player has actually given up.

For adults, I need to think the player knows they have the opportunity, but just don't want to try. Half way to the dugout is good, if you're not sure.

For kids, I wait until they hit the dugout. Kids are a little more oblivious to what is going on in the world around them. What harm does it do to be a little patient ? I've had kids in HS get two steps from the dugout, while every coach and player on their team are screaming at them to run to 1st, then make the attempt.

No one is going to question you about waiting, only on making a snap Out call.

[Stripes1950]

Varsity Fed rules. Had a catcher last night catch the third strike on a bounce which would have been the third out if caught cleanly. I called and signaled strike three. The batter started toward his dugout. The F2 asks me, "Do I have to throw him out?" I remained silent. The batter continued to the dugout and the defensive team was coming off the field when the defensive coach awoke and told the F2 to throw to 1b. They did so and I made the out call. The batter was probably 10 feet from his dugout. Large playable territory at this field. Make sure that you don't assist either team in this situation. I couldn't make any comment to the catcher even though he asked me a direct question.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Stripes1950

Varsity Fed rules. Had a catcher last night catch the third strike on a bounce which would have been the third out if caught cleanly. I called and signaled strike three. The batter started toward his dugout. The F2 asks me, "Do I have to throw him out?" I remained silent. The batter continued to the dugout and the defensive team was coming off the field when the defensive coach awoke and told the F2 to throw to 1b. They did so and I made the out call. The batter was probably 10 feet from his dugout. Large playable territory at this field. Make sure that you don't assist either team in this situation. I couldn't make any comment to the catcher even though he asked me a direct question.

IMO, this is just like the Doug Eddings debacle. I think you should have signaled "no catch" along with a verbal "no catch." I do this every time now, ever since the World Series snafu. This lets both the batter and defense know the situation. It is not "assisting" either team, just making the proper call. I have noticed that more big league umpires are now emphatically signaling "no catch" these days.

[TwoBits]

What is the "no catch" signal?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

What is the "no catch" signal?

The "no catch" signal on an uncaught third strike is similar to a safe signal. The PU steps back away from the plate while holding both arms extended to his sides parallel to the ground. Some umpires do this with their fist's clenched. This let's your partners know immediately that you didn't have F2 gloving the ball cleanly.


Tim.

[LMan]

This is a good idea, well worth doing in light of the Eddings episode. As you would call the batter out if he were ineligible to run to 1B on a D3K, then its just as important to let him know he's eligible to run.

[Stripes1950]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

The "no catch" signal on an uncaught third strike is similar to a safe signal. The PU steps back away from the plate while holding both arms extended to his sides parallel to the ground. Some umpires do this with their fist's clenched. This let's your partners know immediately that you didn't have F2 gloving the ball cleanly.


Tim.

I agree. I will use this mechanic in the future. I felt really uncomfortable when I made no call or signal on that call. Thanks. This forum has really helped me become a more complete umpire.

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

There has been a recent rule change in OBR stating that the batter is now out on a D3K when he leaves the dirt area surrounding home plate.

When was this? Do you have any references?

[NFump]

The Sporting News 2006 edition of the Official Baseball Rules.