Tough ending to game

[DTQ_Blue]

Last at bat, visitor down 4 runs, 16 y/o state tournament birth on the line (LL seniors), 2 outs R1 on 2nd, 3-2 count, RH batter. Pitch is considerably outside. I'm PU and locked in on the pitch. If the batter made any attempt to swing, it wasn't enough for me to notice, probably because my eyes are tracking to the outside of the plate. I call ball (4) and batter tosses his bat toward the dugout down the first base line and heads to first. Several members of the defense are yelling that he swung at the ball. I'm thinking if he did, I missed it completely, but I can get help. I go to U1 (we had a 4 man crew) who bangs the batter out.

After the game U1 isn't able to explain his call to me in a way that makes any sense, so I'm thinking that maybe what happened is that the batter slightly moved his bat (outside of my field of vision) followed by a quick bat toss and U1 didn't know the difference between that sequence and an offer at the ball.

This was a put together crew of guys from different local LLs and I had no idea of the skill level or rules knowledge of my partners.

Could I have done anything differently, or do you just live or die with your partner's call when you ask for help.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Could I have done anything differently, or do you just live or die with your partner's call when you ask for help.

No. They asked for help and you did not see the play admittedly. And just because the explanation was not great, does not mean it was the wrong call either. And depending on the rules you played under, you probably had little to no choice but ask for help.

Peace

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Could I have done anything differently, or do you just live or die with your partner's call when you ask for help.

I would have waited for either the catcher or manager to ask me to get help, then go with what your partner says. Pretty simple.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

This was a put together crew of guys from different local LLs and I had no idea of the skill level or rules knowledge of my partners.

Did you have any type of pre-game. This would have given you some idea of what you were partnered with. However, what would it have mattered?

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Could I have done anything differently, or do you just live or die with your partner's call when you ask for help.

As others have said, you'd just have to live with your partner's call. You stated that you may have missed the swing, and that's why an appeal is in the rule book.

[dash_riprock]

Unless F2 stands up or hornets sting you in both eyes, you have to get that swing (if he indeed swings). I don't buy the tracking excuse. The swing will begin (relatively) long before your eyes track the pitch off the plate. That's your call.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Unless F2 stands up or hornets sting you in both eyes, you have to get that swing (if he indeed swings). I don't buy the tracking excuse. The swing will begin (relatively) long before your eyes track the pitch off the plate. That's your call.

Agree 100%! You have to see both the bat and the pitch. That said, why did you question your partner about his call? He rendered his decision when you went to him, so what's up with the questions? Who cares about the "bad ending" to the game - was your favorite team loosing? You are supposed to be an official so you don't care who wins or looses.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Unless F2 stands up or hornets sting you in both eyes, you have to get that swing (if he indeed swings). I don't buy the tracking excuse. The swing will begin (relatively) long before your eyes track the pitch off the plate. That's your call.

So why do we have swing appeals?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by waltjp

So why do we have swing appeals?

I agree with this.

[DG]

Originally Posted by waltjp

So why do we have swing appeals?

Because it is expected, by rule, and no one is 100% on determining yes or no.

That being said, studies have shown that a very high percentage of major league players could not stop their bat once started, so why would we expect amateurs to be able to do so? Vast majority of "check swings" are swings.

In my pregame I always say that if I come to you on check swing appeal to give me what you got because if I missed a strike I want it back.

[waltjp]

I'm not making an argument against the appeal. My question was to the post that stated that the PU has to get this call.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I'm not making an argument against the appeal. My question was to the post that stated that the PU has to get this call.

You don't think it's PU's job to see and call a swing?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

You don't think it's PU's job to see and call a swing?

You're pulling my leg, right? You can't possibly be this obtuse. Of course the PU calls ball and strikes but following your line of thinking there is no need for check swing appeals.

So what do you propose? Should the PU have sole authority for all balls and strikes, including all swings? Should we not have a check swing appeal?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by waltjp

You're pulling my leg, right? You can't possibly be this obtuse. Of course the PU calls ball and strikes but following your line of thinking there is no need for check swing appeals.

So what do you propose? Should the PU have sole authority for all balls and strikes, including all swings? Should we not have a check swing appeal?

The PU can and has the authority to rule on a swing. In NF rules it is up to the PU to make the request. So on some level the answer is yes. But if you do not see it, then ask for an appeal. But if you see a clear swing, why ask for an appeal?

Peace

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Of course the PU calls ball and strikes but following your line of thinking there is no need for check swing appeals.

That is not following my line of thinking. I have no problem with appeals. In fact, I love them and always grant them even in FED.

My comment referred to a situation where PU, with an unobstructed view of the batter, failed to see even an attempt at a swing (because he was tracking an outside pitch) that his partner eventually rang up. The OP intimated that it was a full swing, not a borderline check swing. That is a call that PU is expected to get without any help. You pull that stuff in college or even decent HS varsity and you will get chewed on (properly) for not getting your own calls.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

That is not following my line of thinking. I have no problem with appeals. In fact, I love them and always grant them even in FED.

My comment referred to a situation where PU, with an unobstructed view of the batter, failed to see even an attempt at a swing (because he was tracking an outside pitch) that his partner eventually rang up. The OP intimated that it was a full swing, not a borderline check swing. That is a call that PU is expected to get without any help. You pull that stuff in college or even decent HS varsity and you will get chewed on (properly) for not getting your own calls.

I agree with this. Appears we had a misunderstanding.