Ending Game

[bbsbvb83]

Illini Ref posted a similar situation for baseball and I am wondering about NFHS Softball:

Bases loaded, two out, bottom of the last inning, tie game. NFHS rule set only please.

Batter draws a walk and touches first. Runner at third touches home. Runner from first base never touches second and runs to join the celebration. Before the umpires leave the field of play, the defensive team appeals that the runner from first base never touched second. Does the run score?

Please provide NFHS Softball rule reference if possible.

[SC Ump]

Rule 8 Batter-Runner and Runner
SECTION 6 THE RUNNER IS OUT
ART. 22 . . . She abandons a base, enters her team area or leaves the field of play.

Rule 9 Scoring and Record Keeping
SECTION 1 HOW A TEAM SCORES
ART. 1 . . .
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home plate during action in which the third out is made as follows:
d. when a third out is declared on an appeal play resulting in a force out (This play takes precedence if enforcing of it would negate a score.);

[Dakota]

8-6-22 is not an appeal play.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

8-6-22 is not an appeal play.

Are you saying you're gonna automatically make that call without being asked by the defense?

[Dakota]

I would in a non-walk-off situation, so why is the walk-off situation different? I've read a number of umpires SAY this needs to be appealed by the defense, but where is the rule backing that up? The runner did not miss the base; she failed to advance.

If the run would be disallowed if the defense appealed, why would not the run be disallowed without the appeal?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If the run would be disallowed if the defense appealed, why would not the run be disallowed without the appeal?

Not a disagreement with your original interpretation, but to this question, lots of things are accepted/ignored if not appealed.

[vcblue]

Wouldn't you need to achieve a base to abandon a base? She did not abandon 1st base, she never reached 2nd base. This is either a live ball out or missed base appeal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Wouldn't you need to achieve a base to abandon a base? She did not abandon 1st base, she never reached 2nd base. This is either a live ball out or missed base appeal.

Ask yourself this then... on a walk, can the defense get a force out by throwing to 2nd? No. So this can't be a live ball out. And you can't have a missed base unless they achieved the base as well.

The ONLY out available here is abandonment, which does not qualify for disallowing R1's run (again, assuming we're talking 2nd or 3rd base here).

[vcblue]

I had to run out to the car to get the case book. Just read the NFHS Case book, Page 64. Based on the two case plays the runner MAY be called out. We had a abandoned base situation in So-cal this year. BR hit a shot to the left of F5. F5 does not catch the ball. BR thinks she does and after reaching 1st walks off the base towards her dugout. BU calls time and places her back on 1st. DC protest because she walked off the base after F1 had the ball in the circle. CIF upheld the umpires decision. Therefore if this play happened in California the umpire could call time and place the runner on 2nd to end the game based on rule 8-6-22

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Wouldn't you need to achieve a base to abandon a base? She did not abandon 1st base, she never reached 2nd base....

Neither case ruling on 8-6-22 talks about abandoning "a base". The first says the runner is out for "giving up" and the second says the runner is out for "abandoning her effort to run the bases." (Case plays 8.6.22 A and B). In this situation, runner is "abandoning her effort to run the bases".

Since the BOB is a base award to all of the runners, I'm not 100% convinced R3's failure to advance would disallow the run anyway. This is not a force, because the runner is not in jeopardy. What, then, would be the basis for disallowing the run even if you called R3 out?

[MD Longhorn]

Nothing. ASA has taught for years that only BR and R1 are relevant in this situation, regarding whether the run scores or not.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Nothing. ASA has taught for years that only BR and R1 are relevant in this situation, regarding whether the run scores or not.

Don't know what clinics you've been attending, but I've never heard such a thing.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't know what clinics you've been attending, but I've never heard such a thing.

Multiple. The first time I heard this was probably 12 years ago or so - I only remember that time because it got an "Oh really?" from me. I know I've heard this numerous times since then.

Based on your comment though, you are telling me this is wrong. If so, what rule? Clinics aside, I can find no rules basis for disallowing a run in this case.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Multiple. The first time I heard this was probably 12 years ago or so - I only remember that time because it got an "Oh really?" from me. I know I've heard this numerous times since then.

Based on your comment though, you are telling me this is wrong. If so, what rule? Clinics aside, I can find no rules basis for disallowing a run in this case.

So, what do you do when R3 goes directly to the dugout and F4 is standing on 2B with the ball appealing the missed base?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So, what do you do when R3 goes directly to the dugout and F4 is standing on 2B with the ball appealing the missed base?

How can it be a missed base - to miss a base, you have to pass it without hitting it. If you are calling this a missed base in THIS case, are you implying that you would not call the out for abandoning the basepaths if this happened in the middle of the game when R1's run didn't appear to end the game? No - BU would rule that runner out for ABANDONMENT (Yes, it's usually a crutch, but for once it's the proper ruling) when they entered the dugout. You can't call it abandonment in one case, but insist on an appeal for a missed base in another.

I ask again ... by what rule are you disallowing this run?