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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 09:56am
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Talking Balks

I'm PU on a 15U game. Both teams have kids that play High school.

VT F1 in the stretch getting signal with the "gorilla" arm. Looks at 1st where B1 is leading off. As he looks he swings his right arm around. I call a balk. The VT coach politely asks why. I state "Coach your pitcher made a motion to 1st by waving his arm around when he looked". Coach yells at F1 to keeps his arm still and goes back to the dugout.

Next inning HT F1 comes set then does a "Jump Turn" toward first and feints a throw. I call a balk. The HT coach comes out as asks why the balk. I state "Coach your pitcher may not feint to 1st while in contact with the rubber". The coach states yes but he came off the rubber when he did the "jump turn". I state "Coach your pitcher started his motion while in contact with the rubber and pitching restrictions apply". The coach goes back to the dugout.
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 11:17am
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Originally Posted by charliej47 View Post
The coach states yes but he came off the rubber when he did the "jump turn". I state "Coach your pitcher started his motion while in contact with the rubber and pitching restrictions apply".
I was with you right up till here. You're right to call the balk, but wrong about the reason.

The correct reason is that a jump turn is not a legal disengagement or "step off." To be legal disengagement, the pivot foot is the only thing that can move.
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Last edited by mbyron; Fri Jun 11, 2010 at 12:37pm. Reason: Silly foot mistake
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 11:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
I was with you right up till here. You're right to call the balk, but wrong about the reason.

The correct reason is that a jump turn is not a legal disengagement or "step off." To be legal disengagement, the free foot is the only thing that can move.
I ruled as such because when he started his "jump turn" he was in contact with the rubber and the turn is an extension of hie contact.
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I have been umpiring so long that it was called Rounders when I started.
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 11:34am
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
I was with you right up till here. You're right to call the balk, but wrong about the reason.

The correct reason is that a jump turn is not a legal disengagement or "step off." To be legal disengagement, the free foot is the only thing that can move.
Isn't that pretty much the same thing?
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 12:02pm
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To be legal disengagement, the free foot is the only thing that can move.
The free foot? On a disengagement?
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 12:36pm
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The free foot? On a disengagement?
Whoops. Pivot, of course. I'll fix it.
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 12:39pm
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I ruled as such because when he started his "jump turn" he was in contact with the rubber and the turn is an extension of hie contact.
There's nothing in the rules about "extension of the contact." Rather than make up a rule about being in contact when he's obviously not, you're on more solid ground to explain it in terms of NOT being a legal disengagement.

Since it's not a legal disengagement, it's still governed by the rules concerning stepping and throwing to 1B, even though the pivot foot loses contact with the rubber.
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 01:09pm
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Originally Posted by charliej47 View Post
I'm PU on a 15U game. Both teams have kids that play High school.
Sure they played by FED rules? Just because these kids play HS doesn't necessarily mean this league or game was being played under FED rules.

Quote:
VT F1 in the stretch getting signal with the "gorilla" arm. Looks at 1st where B1 is leading off. As he looks he swings his right arm around. I call a balk. The VT coach politely asks why. I state "Coach your pitcher made a motion to 1st by waving his arm around when he looked". Coach yells at F1 to keeps his arm still and goes back to the dugout.
If they were playing by OBR rules, this is NOT a balk. Even in HS I would call TIME, dust the plate off and tell F2 to go talk to F1 and tell him the "deal"
I KNOW what the rule states but even FED has "tweaked" this ruling from it's first inception.

Quote:
Next inning HT F1 comes set then does a "Jump Turn" toward first and feints a throw. I call a balk. The HT coach comes out as asks why the balk. I state "Coach your pitcher may not feint to 1st while in contact with the rubber". The coach states yes but he came off the rubber when he did the "jump turn". I state "Coach your pitcher started his motion while in contact with the rubber and pitching restrictions apply". The coach goes back to the dugout.
No problem with this one as this is a balk under all 3 major rule codes.

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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 01:37pm
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At the start of the game both coaches inform me at the plate meeting that they wanted the High School balk rules used.

The first time he waved his arm around I called time and while dusting off the plate sent F2 out to talk to him. Two pitches later he did it again and that is when the balk occurred.
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I have been umpiring so long that it was called Rounders when I started.
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 02:19pm
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Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post
No problem with this one as this is a balk under all 3 major rule codes.
Except gorilla arm is not a balk in OBR and NCAA.
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 02:25pm
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I find it extremely humorous that the only person I blocked the first time I was active here for posting nothing but stupid ... 3 years ago ... is still posting, and the one time I click "View post" on one of his, it's still stupid.
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 06:35pm
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The jump turn is considered to be in contact with the rubber throughout the move.
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Old Fri Jun 11, 2010, 08:07pm
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Semantics. A jump turn or jap step is a throw to 1b, if you don't throw it is a balk.
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Old Sat Jun 12, 2010, 12:32am
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Semantics. A jump turn or jap step is a throw to 1b, if you don't throw it is a balk.
Yep, it's pretty cut and dry.
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