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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 12:14pm
EMD EMD is offline
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Can a runner cause a pitcher to balk? Can a coach create a balk? At what point does poor mechanic by the pitcher (stop in motion) delivering the ball to the batter become a balk versus a deliberate attempt by the pitcher to deceive the runner? How is the rules applied in HS, OBR and NCAA.

Thank you
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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 01:30pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMD
Can a runner cause a pitcher to balk? Can a coach create a balk? At what point does poor mechanic by the pitcher (stop in motion) delivering the ball to the batter become a balk versus a deliberate attempt by the pitcher to deceive the runner? How is the rules applied in HS, OBR and NCAA.

Thank you
Huh? Sorry, but to get more than the most basic response, you are going to need to be a LOT more specific about what you are asking.

I am having the sinking feeling that you do not have and have not looked in even one of the various rule books you reference. If so, what is the purpose of your query? You can find [and start] all sorts of heated debate over balks/ not a balk in certain situations under the various codes. But it is not really the function of this board to "teach" the rules and interpretations to complete novices who don't even have a rule book to go to for the most basic issue.

That said, on one level, almost anything can "cause" a pitcher to balk. It is illegal for anyone to intentionally set about "causing" a balk. There is nothing wrong with a "deliberate attempt to deceive the runner", so long as the various mechanical requirements and prohibitions contained in the rule book are observed. Violations of those mechanical requirements and prohibitions, including ANY complete "stop in motion" after the pitcher is comitted is a balk with runners on base. Lots of what untutored observers see as/ think are complete "stops", aren't. Lots of what untutored observers see as/ think are balks, aren't.

The forgoing paragraph contains statements which I suspect that you will read as contradictory. GO READ A RULE BOOK! [Any one of the three you mentioned will do, for a start] Then come back with a specific question about a specific issue/ act/ motion, and you will be able to get some actually helpful advice and info.
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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 01:37pm
EMD EMD is offline
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jack ass
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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 01:41pm
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Originally posted by EMD
jack ***
Yes, I am sure you are a jacka$$.
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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 01:45pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMD
Can a runner cause a pitcher to balk?
Yes. Sometimes it's legal. Sometimes it's not.

Quote:
Can a coach create a balk?
Yes. But "never" legally.

Quote:
At what point does poor mechanic by the pitcher (stop in motion) delivering the ball to the batter become a balk versus a deliberate attempt by the pitcher to deceive the runner?
When the pitcher violates one of the balk rules.


Quote:
How is the rules applied in HS, OBR and NCAA.
Generally, in accordance with 6-2-4 (FED), 8.05(OBR) and 9-3 (NCAA) (There are some exceptions to the above.)

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Thank you
You're welcome.
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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 06:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by EMD
Can a runner cause a pitcher to balk?
Yes. Sometimes it's legal. Sometimes it's not.

Quote:
Can a coach create a balk?
Yes. But "never" legally.

Quote:
At what point does poor mechanic by the pitcher (stop in motion) delivering the ball to the batter become a balk versus a deliberate attempt by the pitcher to deceive the runner?
When the pitcher violates one of the balk rules.


Quote:
How is the rules applied in HS, OBR and NCAA.
Generally, in accordance with 6-2-4 (FED), 8.05(OBR) and 9-3 (NCAA) (There are some exceptions to the above.)

Quote:
Thank you
You're welcome.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!



Bob, how can the runner illegally screw the F1???? Now the BR can, stepping out etc......, but R1??? Tell us, please...............
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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 07:10pm
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A start in the pitcher's motion and a stop will
most always get a balk called.
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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 08:40pm
Gee Gee is offline
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Chris asked:

"Bob, how can the runner illegally screw the F1???? Now the BR can, stepping out etc......, but R1??? Tell us, please..............."
---------------------------------------

By simply yelling BALK, BALK, BALK. Hey coach, need a new runner, this guy is going on the bus. G.
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Old Wed Aug 11, 2004, 08:22am
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Quote:
Originally posted by chris s

Bob, how can the runner illegally screw the F1???? Now the BR can, stepping out etc......, but R1??? Tell us, please...............
4.06(a)(3) (and the equivalent FED and NCAA rules) applies to runners, doesn't it?
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Old Wed Aug 11, 2004, 08:45am
EMD EMD is offline
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Question

Bob, how can the runner illegally screw the F1???? Now the BR can, stepping out etc......, but R1??? Tell us, please............... [/B][/QUOTE]

4.06(a)(3) (and the equivalent FED and NCAA rules) applies to runners, doesn't it? [/B][/QUOTE]

If this rule applies to the runner, would it apply to the base coach? What would you do in the following situation:

Left handed pitcher, runner on third. R3 runs & stops, clap his hand and hollers HEY PITCH!, base coach hopping & swinging arms; everything is timed to happen at same time. Pitcher in the Windup Position, pauses or stops his motion after he is set then delivers the ball home. Did R3 & base coach create the balk, YES. However, by calling this a balk does the umpire give an advantage to the offensive team that would allow them to create situations where the pitcher loses control of his mechanic and create a unintentional error? I would think the offensive is bending the rule to gain an advantage and you would not call this a balk. What do you think?
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Old Wed Aug 11, 2004, 09:08am
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMD
Bob, how can the runner illegally screw the F1???? Now the BR can, stepping out etc......, but R1??? Tell us, please...............
4.06(a)(3) (and the equivalent FED and NCAA rules) applies to runners, doesn't it? [/B][/QUOTE]

If this rule applies to the runner, would it apply to the base coach? What would you do in the following situation:

Left handed pitcher, runner on third. R3 runs & stops, clap his hand and hollers HEY PITCH!, base coach hopping & swinging arms; everything is timed to happen at same time. Pitcher in the Windup Position, pauses or stops his motion after he is set then delivers the ball home. Did R3 & base coach create the balk, YES. However, by calling this a balk does the umpire give an advantage to the offensive team that would allow them to create situations where the pitcher loses control of his mechanic and create a unintentional error? I would think the offensive is bending the rule to gain an advantage and you would not call this a balk. What do you think? [/B][/QUOTE]

You know, at the risk of being called names again, EMD, I would like to renew my suggestion that you go out and GET A RULE BOOK! Also, my comment that this board does not teach rules from the ground up: we tend to presume a basic familiarity.

ORB 4.06 starts out: "No manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer, or bat boy shall at any time, whether from the bench, the coach's box or on the playing field, or elsewhere --"; and goes on to enumerate several illegal acts, including, in (a)(3) any word or act done for the obvious purpose of inducing a balk. The prescribed penalty is nullifying any balk, and ejecting the offender.

Thus, nothing about the application of this rule could possibly give the OFFENSE any advantage. Everybody [except you] posting on this thread knows this, and so it is not set out explicitly, since it is understood.

So, what I think, is that you need to go get yourself a rule book, and stop making a fool of yourself by asking "questions" which reveal that you have never read the rules in your life.
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Old Wed Aug 11, 2004, 10:33am
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Bob, how can the runner illegally screw the F1???? Now the BR can, stepping out etc......, but R1??? Tell us, please............... [/B][/QUOTE]


Also if R2 would as for "TIME" as the pitcher goes into his motion. Should F1 stop I would judge this as the same as BR stepping out.
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