Infield fly umpire screwup

[kopan99]

OBR. Bases loaded 1 out, popup near second, infield fly rule called but ball drops. All runners take off. Fielder with ball thinks its a force and steps on second. Umpire also thinks its a force and calls the runner out (3rd out). Said runner stops halfway to second and returns to the dugout. Manager lodges a protest for misinterpretation of a playing rule

Umpires can remedy this in NFHS, but is there a fix in OBR. And, can the protest be upheld on a mixup concerning a tag vs. force play.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kopan99

OBR. Bases loaded 1 out, popup near second, infield fly rule called but ball drops. All runners take off. Fielder with ball thinks its a force and steps on second. Umpire also thinks its a force and calls the runner out (3rd out). Said runner stops halfway to second and returns to the dugout. Manager lodges a protest for misinterpretation of a playing rule

Umpires can remedy this in NFHS, but is there a fix in OBR. And, can the protest be upheld on a mixup concerning a tag vs. force play.

NF does not participate in protests. Maybe your state does, but the NF has nothing to do with this. I could see the umpires getting together and changing this if this was misapplied.

Peace

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by kopan99

And, can the protest be upheld on a mixup concerning a tag vs. force play.

Maybe.

It really depends on what the umpire tells you. If he states the force is still in effect (thus admitting he's a dope), it certainly is protestable. The trick, of course, is getting him to admit to it.

Good managers ask questions, instead of going off. A good manager could draw out the right response. A bad manager would either not know the rule, or simply yell at the umpire.

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by kopan99

OBR. Bases loaded 1 out, popup near second, infield fly rule called but ball drops. All runners take off. Fielder with ball thinks its a force and steps on second. Umpire also thinks its a force and calls the runner out (3rd out). Said runner stops halfway to second and returns to the dugout. Manager lodges a protest for misinterpretation of a playing rule

Umpires can remedy this in NFHS, but is there a fix in OBR. And, can the protest be upheld on a mixup concerning a tag vs. force play.

You could protest but what's the likley outcome (given that the runner was "halfway to second") if the umpire didnt' screw up? The runner is out on a tag. And, unless the runner was already starting to retreat while R3 was going all out for the plate, I wouldnt' even have a run scoring on this.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You could protest but what's the likley outcome (given that the runner was "halfway to second") if the umpire didnt' screw up? The runner is out on a tag. And, unless the runner was already starting to retreat while R3 was going all out for the plate, I wouldnt' even have a run scoring on this.

I've seen this before (and didn't call the force out), and that wasn't the outcome. The fielder ran over the base for what he thought was a 3rd out force, and continued running toward the dugout. The runner knew the situation and continued to run, coming into (in this case) 3B standing up. He requested time, which I granted, and the defense came back onto the field.

I don't have a comment about protests; my state doesn't allow them for HS games, and I've never been involved in one in the summer leagues I work.

In the OP, if my partner had screwed up in this fashion, I'd encourage him to rectify the error. That would probably mean pissing off everybody: put all the runners back on their TOP bases and continue with 2 outs. My thinking:
1. The BR is out on the IFF, which happened pre-screwup.
2. The runners took off pre-screwup, and so were liable to be put out.
3. The defense screwed up by not tagging R1; had R1 continued, everyone would have been safe.
4. The offense screwed up when R1 broke off his running; still, his error can be explained by the umpire's error, unlike that of the defense.
5. Of course, the umpire screwed up. To rectify his error, we could either allow some/all runners to advance or put them all back to their TOP bases.
6. Allowing runners to advance, IMO, punishes the defense too much for their error and the offense too little for theirs.
7. Allowing the 3rd out to stand, IMO, punishes the offense too much for their error and the defense too little for theirs.
8. The middle ground is to put the runners back on their TOP bases and count the out for the IFF. That's a slight advantage to the offense, but they deserve it because their error was at least partly caused by the umpire's error.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You could protest but what's the likley outcome (given that the runner was "halfway to second") if the umpire didnt' screw up? The runner is out on a tag. And, unless the runner was already starting to retreat while R3 was going all out for the plate, I wouldnt' even have a run scoring on this.

Wow, that's a stretch. Runner is only halfway, and you're assuming a tag would have been made? I think it's more likely R1 sees the fielder with the ball and retreats back to first ... and depending on the age, we might not even get a throw to first.

I agree with you about not scoring the run unless he was about to score when the bad call was made. I would rectify this by putting everyone back on their TOP bases.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

5. Of course, the umpire screwed up. To rectify his error, we could either allow some/all runners to advance or put them all back to their TOP bases.

5. Of course, the umpire screwed up. To rectify his error, we could either allow some/all runners to crucify him verbally, blast him mercilessly in the media, or put them all back to their TOP bases.

There, fixed it!