Infield fly?

[Mattinglyfan]

Runners on first and second and 1 out. There was a double steal, hit and run. The ball was hit toward the second baseman's postion. It was a looping fly toward the gap. However, he was heading toward second to cover the bag. He had to sprint toward right field and attempt to make a Willie Mays type , over the shoulder catch. He missed. At that point both the batter, and the runner at first base were called out because of the infield fly.
I kept both of the runners moving because no one had heard "infield fly" called. Since the second baseman had to make such an effort, and move such a distance and make an "abnormal effort" on the ball, I was under the impression that there was no infield fly in effect.
The infield umpire had called both the batter, and the runner at first out since he was tagged during the confusion. I asked the infield umpire if he had called infield fly, and said replied "no". I turned to the home plate umpire , and asked who called it. He said he did call it. That was followed by an uproar from the stands. No one had heard him either.
The rule states that an infield fly is called if the ball should be caught under reasonable effort. It is a judgement call by the umpire. However, If the ball appears to be a tough play, and the call is not heard, do I have a beef?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
However, If the ball appears to be a tough play, and the call is not heard, do I have a beef?

If your "beef" is that the umpire should have been louder, then, yes, you have a beef.

If your beef is that the umpire shouldn't have made the call in the first place, then, yes, you have a beef (assuming your description is correct).

But, if your beef is that runners should be put back on the bases, then, no, you don't have a beef. The umpire's judgment, no matter how faulty, stands.

[Mattinglyfan]

I appreciate your reply. I have always been taught to never question an umpires judgement or decision as a player, and this is strictly enforced to my players. As a coach I feel it necessary to protect the hard effort and play of my players.
Because this was a a possible game tying situation, should this call be protested, or swallowed?

[Rog]

Re: "should this call be protested"
As was stated - it was a "judgement" call; which, is not a protestable matter.
Now, perhaps you can approach that umpire in an amicable manner at some point in the future and pick his brain as to why he felt that it was an infield fly.
Let him explain why he felt the need to make the call. Then give him your understanding and impression of the situation and see where you differ.
Perhaps he will encorporate some of your thoughts prior to making his next infield fly call.....

[gmtomko]

Judgement call and rule correctly applied so no protest can be made. As for hearing the umpire or not, there should have been a hand signal as well which, in a noisy crowd situation, should also be looked for. Ordinary effort is obviously subjective - an infielder having to go into the outfield a bit to make a catch does not necessarily nullify ordinary effort especially if there is a chance that the player misplayed the ball. Finally, I would hope that the umpire called the batter out immediately, providing another clue that your base coaches and runners should have known that they were at their own risk.

[Mattinglyfan]

It is the beginning of the year. Umpires need to get into form as well as players, scorkeepers, and coaches. Unless a fly ball is a can of corn, or requires very minimal effort, I think that in a 13 and 14 year old league, it is hard enough to assume that the ball will even be caught. This was not a routine play. The ball didn't even land in the infield. Never the less. If the judgement is made to call an infield fly, everyone on the field should know it. And the call should be mirrored by the infield umpire, waving his arms as he yells.
For call from the umpire should never be to blame for the outcome of the game.

[bluezebra]

If an infielder has to make an over the shoulder catch while running toward the OF, it is not an infield fly. That is not "ordinary effort". Unless he's a wide receiver.

The ball landing in the OF has no bearing, if the infielder can make the catch facing home plate.

Bob

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
And the call should be mirrored by the infield umpire, waving his arms as he yells.

That's not the proper mechanic.

[Trojans73]

Bob is correct; the field ump should not "wave his arms" as he yells. He should merely point to the ball with his left hand and declare "infield fly" as the ball reaches the apex of its flight.

[ohiogray]

As stated on an infield fly where the ball lands in the outfield, just past the infield track has no bearing on deciding whether it is a infield fly or not.

In a case where the "loop" up not a line drive could be in shallow outfield or deep infield a infield fly could be signaled and called. Right pointer finger extended above the head pointing skyward. Verbally announcing firmly Infield fly. Plate umpire has the first call of fly balls of that nature.

Now if the infielder had to go through any extra excessive out of the ordinary positioning to make the catch then it should not be called an Infield fly.

[gsf23]

I'm still trying to figure out how the kid at first got tagged out if he was stealing on the pitch? Where was your first base coach?

[ohiogray]

To a certain extent gsf23, I agree with you but once the first base runner is stealing and leaving first in all actuality he should start to pick up the third base coach. But then again are not the players all informed that when the ball is hit in the air with less than 2 outs they should freeze and stay within reach of their claimed base?

[Trojans73]

My bad...he would point with the other left hand!

[Mattinglyfan]

As I mentioned before, because the infield fly call was not heard, there was a tremendous amount of confusion during the play. It was my responsibility to ask for clarification from the umpires after the play, as to why the runner was called out. It was my mistake, that I did not.
Up until last night I still didn't know which runner was called out. I thought the runner at first was tagged out. After talking to the player, and my first base coach last night at our team practice, I had a chance to clarify the situation . Here is where it sits. Input is greatly appreciated.
After the ball was hit in the air, the first base coach had called the runner from 1st back to the bag, where he was still standing throughout the end of the play. Since the runner from second was stealing 3rd, and I had not heard the call, I was kept him at 3rd at the end of the play. The runners were standing on the 1st, and 3rd bag. The defensive team threw the ball to second, where the 3rd out was called. Is there an out.
Since there was an infield fly, the batter is out. Therefore there should be no force at 2nd, and the runner should be able to advance from 2nd, "at his own risk" without tagging. Am I wrong?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan

Since there was an infield fly, the batter is out. Therefore there should be no force at 2nd, and the runner should be able to advance from 2nd, "at his own risk" without tagging. Am I wrong?

I'm a little confused --

If the ball was caught, runners must "tag up". An infield fly is just like any other fly ball, except that the batter is automatically out.

And, the out for a runner leaving a base before the ball is touched on a catch is not a force out -- it's an appeal out.

Based on the most recent post (R2 advancing without tagging), that's what I thought you were asking about.

Then, I re-read the original, and I see that the ball was not caught. Since it wasn't caught, there's no need for runners to "tag up." Since the batter was out, there's no need for the runners to advance -- no force. If that was the situation, then the defense tagging the base at second had no bearing.