NFHS Illegal Sub / Umpire Screwup

[SRW]

Thought I'd run this by thr group for an opinion. This was presented to me today, and I had mixed feelings.

NFHS Varsity Game between Team A and Team B.

Team B's pitcher was a runner at second base. Team B coach asked the plate umpire if he could use the same courtesy runner that had run for the catcher earlier in the game. The umpire said he could. After a pitch to the next batter Team A's coach protested that the courtesy runner was an illegal substitute. After much discussion the umpire ruled that the courtesy runner was illegal and restricted her to the bench for the remainder of the game.

What is your opinion of that ruling?

[Ed Maeder]

First of all the umpire should have not have allowed this as we all should know. The coach could have used the player as a sub for the pitcher and have her run. Although this didn't happen according to the rule book this is considered an illegal substitute. (8-9-1 Penalty)

[Dakota]

Is this an "umpire’s decision that was reversed" (10-2-3m) or a valid protest of an illegal sub?

If the coach had merely entered the illegal CR, and the umpire had not pointed out it was illegal (even if it was because he did not know it was illegal), then this is on the coach.

However, as you relate the event, the OC asked if it was legal and the umpire "ruled" that is was, and then reversed himself after the protest.

Because of that, I'm leaning toward 10-2-3m, and put either F1 or a legal CR on base.

If a valid protest, the illegal CR should also have been ruled OUT.

[Ed Maeder]

I see your point. This was an umpire decision and not a coaches. Thanks!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Thought I'd run this by thr group for an opinion. This was presented to me today, and I had mixed feelings.

NFHS Varsity Game between Team A and Team B.

Team B's pitcher was a runner at second base. Team B coach asked the plate umpire if he could use the same courtesy runner that had run for the catcher earlier in the game. The umpire said he could. After a pitch to the next batter Team A's coach protested that the courtesy runner was an illegal substitute. After much discussion the umpire ruled that the courtesy runner was illegal and restricted her to the bench for the remainder of the game.

What is your opinion of that ruling?

Edited to note: I am referring to the opposing coach's claim, not what the umpire eventually ruled.

What made the player illegal? Is a player who was a CR not allowed to enter the game as a sub? Wouldn't this just be an unreported sub?

[Dakota]

What made the player illegal was that she was a CR for the pitcher after having been the CR for the catcher. NFHS includes an illegal CR under the definition of "illegal substitute"... unless I misunderstood the original situation and the coach was asking to sub for the pitcher instead of a CR for her.

[MrRabbit]

Datota,

You are right about 10-2-3m..

It states that, "Rectify any situation in which an umpires decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

This was brought to me by one of the umpires that did the game.

They ruled illegal sub and called her out and put her on the bench.

Since the umpire told the coach that he could use the same courtesy run for both and the other coach call him on it, the umpire put her in jeopardy.

Fix it with the correct courtesy run, a sub, or the correct pitcher or catcher to run and play on.

No penalties...

Nothing else has a priority on this...

[7in60]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

Datota,

You are right about 10-2-3m..

It states that, "Rectify any situation in which an umpires decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

This was brought to me by one of the umpires that did the game.

They ruled illegal sub and called her out and put her on the bench.

Since the umpire told the coach that he could use the same courtesy run for both and the other coach call him on it, the umpire put her in jeopardy.

Fix it with the correct courtesy run, a sub, or the correct pitcher or catcher to run and play on.

No penalties...

Nothing else has a priority on this...

This came up in an evaluator / instructor clinic I went to 2 weeks ago. It was hard to visualize, but this is a nice example.