Am I missing something here?

[mkuk]

I protested, probably a little more than I should have and a little longer than I should have. He just stood there, no comments, nothing. I pleaded with him to ask his partner for help with the rule 3 times before he finally went out. After they talked, he said the play and call stand. His partner did not help him in any way! I forgot to include, after all that, they awarded the runners second and third. Well of course the other coach lost it at that point! I know I crossed the line as far as what I said to the umpire, and should have been dumped, as well as the other coach after he said his piece as well. Just not a good night.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by mkuk

I protested, probably a little more than I should have and a little longer than I should have.

Did you inform the umpires that you intended to officially protest the game? - or did you just argue/debate/question the call?

He just stood there, no comments, nothing. I pleaded with him to ask his partner for help with the rule 3 times before he finally went out. After they talked, he said the play and call stand. His partner did not help him in any way!

You don't know this as a fact. It's possible that the calling umpire refused to change his call after conferring with the other ump.

I forgot to include, after all that, they awarded the runners second and third.

What was their rationale for awarding bases?

Well of course the other coach lost it at that point! I know I crossed the line as far as what I said to the umpire, and should have been dumped, as well as the other coach after he said his piece as well. Just not a good night.

Assuming you are the manager? If true, the assistant has nothing to say. Period. As soon as the assistant got involved in the discussion you both should have been restricted to the bench. Of course, it's not likely that the umps know this rule either.

[mkuk]

Our state does not allow protests, so that was not an issue. I have been told by other umpires that they are out there to get the calls right. Even if it means having to "eat crow". I can understand a judgment call being missed, but a blatant misinterpretation of a rule, not acceptable. The base umpire was the veteran of the two and left his partner out to dry. It is done and over with, I understand the lower level games get the less experienced, however there is still a need to be professional to know and apply the rules properly.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mkuk

The base umpire was the veteran of the two and left his partner out to dry.

veteran ≠ knowledgeable

veteran ≠ good

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=mkuk;675893]

The base umpire was the veteran of the two and left his partner out to dry.

From your OP

Home plate ump calls batter out!

How did the BU leave his partner out to dry?

How do you know that the veteran did not "chew" his partner out AFTER the game away from everybody?

The PU made the call NOT the BU. When the PU did confer with his partner you do not know what was said.

It's like this.

My partner the PU calls IF and the ball lands foul. My partner also calls the batter out.

Coach comes out and questions.

My partner says "Pete would do you have"

ME: I have a foul ball

Partner: Ok Pete but I am sticking with my call

ME: End of conversation because I am NOT going to get into a pi****g match with my partner on the field for all to see.

After the game is where we would have a SERIOUS discussion.

That's the problem when a state does not have protest procedures in place.

Pete Booth

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mkuk

I protested, probably a little more than I should have and a little longer than I should have.

As Walt points out, a protest is not a matter of degree. A protest is an official lodging of a complaint that an official has misapplied the rules. The official and protesting coach should make a note of the game situation when the protest occurs, in case the protest is upheld and the game is to resume at that point on a later date.

That said, many states do not allow protests, including mine. Whatever the official says on the field, goes. That does not leave coaches without options: on the field, they can politely request that the officials confer and consult the rule book (unlikely). Afterward, they can explain to the assignor what happened and hope for a "teaching moment" between the assignor and official. In the worst cases, AD's can take a complaint to the state association.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by mkuk

I protested, probably a little more than I should have and a little longer than I should have. He just stood there, no comments, nothing. I pleaded with him to ask his partner for help with the rule 3 times before he finally went out. After they talked, he said the play and call stand. His partner did not help him in any way! I forgot to include, after all that, they awarded the runners second and third. Well of course the other coach lost it at that point! I know I crossed the line as far as what I said to the umpire, and should have been dumped, as well as the other coach after he said his piece as well. Just not a good night.

A classic power struggle! The great thing about all this is that while one coach is often on the receiving end of the wrong call, here both coaches were amused by the display of talent on the field. Ball/strike, fair/foul and safe/out are thoroughly tested inside the classroom before an umpire ever steps on the field.

"A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that...

Rule 2.00 (Fair Ball) Comment: If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if ..."

[TxUmp]

At a game where I was a spectator, the wind was blowing strongly from home toward center field. IF situation; batter hits a pop "foul" directly behind the plate. It appeared that it would be well foul, but the wind blew it back toward the plate. The catcher over-ran his attempt to catch the ball. The ball fell several feet behind the plate in foul territory, and bounded untouched back into fair territory. The pitcher walked over and picked it up and got ready to throw the next pitch.

This is clearly a fair ball and an Infield Fly!! Would you have called it, or just let play continue?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by TxUmp

Would you have called it...?

Yes.

[DG]

Originally Posted by TxUmp

At a game where I was a spectator, the wind was blowing strongly from home toward center field. IF situation; batter hits a pop "foul" directly behind the plate. It appeared that it would be well foul, but the wind blew it back toward the plate. The catcher over-ran his attempt to catch the ball. The ball fell several feet behind the plate in foul territory, and bounded untouched back into fair territory. The pitcher walked over and picked it up and got ready to throw the next pitch.

This is clearly a fair ball and an Infield Fly!! Would you have called it, or just let play continue?

Not IFF, but is FAIR ball so play continues. Since pitcher has a live fair batted ball I am not going to let a pitch be thrown just yet. Wind is a factor in determining whether a fly ball is easily catchable with ordinary effort.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by DG

Not IFF, but is FAIR ball so play continues. Since pitcher has a live fair batted ball I am not going to let a pitch be thrown just yet. Wind is a factor in determining whether a fly ball is easily catchable with ordinary effort.

Although I agree in principle that wind is a factor in determining whether a fly ball is catchable with ordinary effort, IMO a fly ball that lands on or near the plate is catchable with ordinary effort.

So F2's mistake in overrunning it on this play is NOT a factor, and I'm getting the out for IFF.

Probably as I say "IFF, the batter's out," and point fair, F1 will figure out that he's holding a live, batted ball.

[DG]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Although I agree in principle that wind is a factor in determining whether a fly ball is catchable with ordinary effort, IMO a fly ball that lands on or near the plate is catchable with ordinary effort.

So F2's mistake in overrunning it on this play is NOT a factor, and I'm getting the out for IFF.

Probably as I say "IFF, the batter's out," and point fair, F1 will figure out that he's holding a live, batted ball.

We will just have to disagree. If he overran a ball that first appeared to be well foul but landed near the plate that ball can't be caught with ordinary effort and thus not IFF.

Now a bunch of Chit is going to happen if the pitcher realizes he has a live ball and starts the front end of a triple play because none of the base runners advanced.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by DG

Now a bunch of Chit is going to happen if the pitcher realizes he has a live ball and starts the front end of a triple play because none of the base runners advanced.

Which is exactly why you need to call the IFF.