missing 1B

greymule · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 11, 2002, 02:04pm

In OBR, if the batter-runner beats the throw to 1B but misses the bag, the umpire still calls him safe. (We know that in Fed it's an out.) With BR 30 feet past 1B down the line, can F3 step on 1B and appeal the missed base to the umpire, or does BR have to be tagged? Or does it depend on whether or not BR has initiated a return to 1B?

St. Louis Blue · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 11, 2002, 04:20pm

I believe that just touching first base would be sufficient provided the fielder made a verbal appeal of the runner missing 1B. Merely touching the bag would not be enough to rule on as an appeal ( unless it is one of those 20-2 laughers LOL)

Have fun out there.

mick · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 11, 2002, 07:33pm

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
In OBR, if the batter-runner beats the throw to 1B but misses the bag, the umpire still calls him safe. (We know that in Fed it's an out.) With BR 30 feet past 1B down the line, can F3 step on 1B and appeal the missed base to the umpire, or does BR have to be tagged? Or does it depend on whether or not BR has initiated a return to 1B?

If it appears the runner is ignoring the fact that he missed first base or home, a player with the ball may appeal the miss and step on the bag and the runner is out. (Relaxed action)

If the runner over-runs first or home, and immediately tries to return to touch first base, or home, the runner must be tagged. (Unrelaxed action)

mick

greymule · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 12, 2002, 11:27am

That's what I figured, Mick. I guess if he's scrambling to get back to 1B, then he has to be tagged, but if he's just moseying back after his overrun, just a tag of the bag (with appeal) will do. Seems there are both relaxed and unrelaxed ways of returning.

mick · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 12, 2002, 11:36am

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
That's what I figured, Mick. I guess if he's scrambling to get back to 1B, then he has to be tagged, but if he's just moseying back after his overrun, just a tag of the bag (with appeal) will do. Seems there are both relaxed and unrelaxed ways of returning.

greymule,
Maybe the reasoning for tagging the player or the base is as simple as, if the runner is hustling to get back there is no time to get an umps attention to appeal the bag, and if the runner is standing near the dugout, or on second base, there is plenty of time.

mick

Jim Porter · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 12, 2002, 01:27pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
greymule,
Maybe the reasoning for tagging the player or the base is as simple as, if the runner is hustling to get back there is no time to get an umps attention to appeal the bag, and if the runner is standing near the dugout, or on second base, there is plenty of time.
mick

Runners must touch the bases in order. When they don't, the defense (if the miss was so blatant that they noticed) has the right to put them out. The consistency is in the method with which runners who have missed their bases can be put out.

First, second, third, and home are all different with different dynamics. In many ways, how we handle a missed base at first will not be the same as it would be at home plate. For example, we are taught to give no signal when a runner misses home plate. But for a runner who beats the play at first, we ignore the missed base and call him safe. That is a clear result of the different dynamics that the rules establish at each of those bases.

At first, the runner may overrun without liability. At home, the runner has no further bases to achieve, and his next destination is in semi-dead ball territory - - the dugout. At second and third, the runners still have not achieved a score, but they are closer to that goal. At second, the runner is in the middle of the diamond. At third, he is near foul territory and possibly his dugout.

However, in other ways, the way in which we handle the missed base is identical at all base points. Since the runner must touch the base, it is a clear advantage to the fielder who possesses the ball in close proximity to that base. All the fielder needs to do is stay right there and tag the runner as he attempts to touch the base.

And since the responsibility for touching each base in order falls heavily on the offense, when a runner does not fulfill that responsibility, when he makes no immediate attempt to correct that error, and when he continues on without touching the base, then it would be unfair for the rules to require the defense to chase him down. Thus, the fielder need only tag the base for the out.

Although I used a lot of words in the paragraphs above, they really outline simple fundamentals. Appeals are not as difficult as many people make them out to be. Understanding what unmistakable means, coupled with a thorough examination of the variety of dynamics present at each base point, and it all starts to make better sense.

NittanyLionUmp · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 12, 2002, 01:53pm

I'm missing something here.

You mean, if B1, while running to first oversteps the bag (makes NO contact)before the ball reaches first you would signal safe before F3 catches the ball.

insatty · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 12, 2002, 02:13pm

I'm missing something here too. If BR fails to touch 1B before F3 cleanly catches throw, holding it firmly within his glove, then BR is out. Why is an appeal necessary?

But following Jim Porter's brown-versus-burnt-sienna and Carl Childress's if-he's-gonna-be-out-he's-gonna-be-out doctrine, if BR beating throw is obvious to everyone in the park and BR's touching failure to apparent only to the umpire, then the umpire should call BR safe. This doctrine has worked wonders for my umpiring avocation and my umpiring enjoyment, so I suscribe to it religiously.

Gee · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 12, 2002, 02:57pm

When the B/R passes first base without touching it, before the ball arrives, he should be signaled safe because he has beaten the play.

As JEA says, as well as C2, and other big dogs, this procedure should be followed at all bases.

Remember the play at first is a ""FORCE"" so all plays at any base where the runner is ""FORCED"" and he passes without touching it he should be signaled safe and that includes Home Plate, again, according to JEA and C2 among others.

As to the Tag or appeal it depends on where the runner goes after he passed the base without touching it.

If he stays within the immediate vicinity (usualy the cutout) of the base and is attempting to get back, he must be tagged as an appeal would not be allowed.

If he continues to run and leaves the immediate area of that base he can now be appealed at any time until he returns and touches the missed base. See OBR 7.10(d) which has been extended to all bases. G.

Jim Porter · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 12, 2002, 03:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by NittanyLionUmp
I'm missing something here.

You mean, if B1, while running to first oversteps the bag (makes NO contact)before the ball reaches first you would signal safe before F3 catches the ball.

No, you aren't missing anything. I would indeed call safe if B1 beats the play. He beats the play if his trailing foot crosses first base before F3 catches the ball while touching the base.

The missed base is an appeal play. Giving no signal tips off the defense to the missed base. The proper mechanic in that situation is to call, "Safe," on the play. If an appeal is made, then you call, "Out." They are two separate plays.

Furthermore, we're all taught to make no signal at home. That is the exception. It's because the runner is not without liability after touching home plate, and because his next stop is the dugout.

Jim Porter · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 12, 2002, 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by insatty
I'm missing something here too. If BR fails to touch 1B before F3 cleanly catches throw, holding it firmly within his glove, then BR is out. Why is an appeal necessary?

But following Jim Porter's brown-versus-burnt-sienna and Carl Childress's if-he's-gonna-be-out-he's-gonna-be-out doctrine, if BR beating throw is obvious to everyone in the park and BR's touching failure to apparent only to the umpire, then the umpire should call BR safe. This doctrine has worked wonders for my umpiring avocation and my umpiring enjoyment, so I suscribe to it religiously.

It has absolutely nothing to do with my brown-versus-burnt-sienna or Carl Childress's if-he's-gonna-be-out-he's-gonna-be-out doctrine. Those are basic philosophies that aid us in our decision-making on the field.

Instead, this has to do with proper mechanics. An appeal is necessary because, according to 7.10, that's how a runner who misses a base is put out. We make no signal at home plate as the exception.

For the purpose of 6.05(j), the batter-runner has, "touched," first base when he has reached it. If he misses it, an appeal is required. He has reached first base, by professional interpretation, when his trailing foot crosses the base.

insatty · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 12, 2002, 04:14pm

Thank you, Jim Porter. Your last post is very helpful.

greymule · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 13, 2002, 10:19pm

Yes, the posts have been very helpful. I posed the question originally because of a play I saw on TV. BR beat the throw but appeared to miss 1B, then overran by quite a bit. F3, who had come off the bag after the catch, then returned to step on 1B and held the ball up for the umpire to see. I don't think F3 vocalized an appeal, however. No call. When the runner, who was calmly walking back to 1B, got near the bag, F3 tagged him, and the ump called the out.

So I don't know whether the runner had begun to return when F3 went back to step on 1B, or whether F3 verbally appealed either at that time or when he finally tagged BR.