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Old Tue Apr 06, 2010, 10:48pm
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Catch/No Catch- Atlanta v. Chicago

Bad call adds to Cubs' Opening Day woes | cubs.com: News

Interesting catch/no catch. To me watching the full speed replay it looked like an obvious no catch. One thing I was taught is to watch the player go into the glove for the ball. It looked pretty clear he did not reach into the glove. Granted, the TV had a different angle than anyone on field level. This isn't a fan boy thing before anyone says anything. I just think it's an interesting play and I've watched it over and over since this is something I don't want to have happen to me.

Another interesting thing, more on a psychological level, is what about the huge jumbotrons? I'm not advocating instant replay, actually I'm against it. I just think it would suck to be on the field, not be allowed to look at that 80' monitor, and then be able to tell from the crowd reaction that you kicked the call.
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Old Wed Apr 07, 2010, 12:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggravy View Post
One thing I was taught is to watch the player go into the glove for the ball. It looked pretty clear he did not reach into the glove.
From the TV angle, yes it was clear. However, from the ground level at the angle he would have seen it, it probably looked like he reached into his glove. When McClouth picked up the ball, his hand wasn't too far from his glove.
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Old Wed Apr 07, 2010, 06:24am
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Just shows how difficult this job is. Four major league umpires could not get this one right, and we, mostly using two men crews are expected to cover it perfectly.

Instant replay is probably going to happen in the major leagues, and this is one of the reasons. Television makes everybody an umpire.
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Old Wed Apr 07, 2010, 07:36am
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Originally Posted by biggravy View Post
Bad call adds to Cubs' Opening Day woes | cubs.com: News

Interesting catch/no catch. To me watching the full speed replay it looked like an obvious no catch. One thing I was taught is to watch the player go into the glove for the ball. It looked pretty clear he did not reach into the glove. Granted, the TV had a different angle than anyone on field level. This isn't a fan boy thing before anyone says anything. I just think it's an interesting play and I've watched it over and over since this is something I don't want to have happen to me.

Another interesting thing, more on a psychological level, is what about the huge jumbotrons? I'm not advocating instant replay, actually I'm against it. I just think it would suck to be on the field, not be allowed to look at that 80' monitor, and then be able to tell from the crowd reaction that you kicked the call.

I didn't think it was obvious from the full-speed replay. The ball definitely came out of the glove, but I thought initially McClouth may have grabbed it in mid-air. There really was no hesitation on his part during the whole play.

Also, it was in the deepest part of left-center field and this would have been U3s call and from where he would have had to make that call, you really can't get a good look at it.

On the note of the jumbo-trons, they should use some discretion when showing the replays. The goal is not to turn the crowd against the umpires or embarrass them (though that didn't happen in this case because the call went against the visiting team). The missed call by U3 on the rundown in the ALCS last year comes to mind....
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Old Wed Apr 07, 2010, 07:52am
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I missed the identical call about 10 years ago in the finals of a tournament. I went out, but from my angle, all I saw was F8 hit the ground and then come up throwing. I did have a fleeting moment of "Hey, did he reach for that ball behind him on the ground?" but I called an out. The call cost the offense the game, but I was relieved when they won the next game to win the tourney.

Yes, there was an argument. A lot of people, from a better angle, had seen what actually happened.

As we all know, we can learn to minimize the plays we simply can't see for certain, but we can't eliminate them entirely.
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Old Wed Apr 07, 2010, 10:16am
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I think the most amazing thing about the video is Lou's tepid reaction. I expected sod to get ripped out and stuff.
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Old Wed Apr 07, 2010, 12:35pm
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Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
I think the most amazing thing about the video is Lou's tepid reaction. I expected sod to get ripped out and stuff.
Lou probably wasn't sure either. I just looked funny so he came out.
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Old Wed Apr 07, 2010, 12:36pm
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I was at the game and we first thought it was an outstanding catch. They then showed a replay on the jumbotron once (and only once) because it was clear the ball squirted out when McLouth hit the ground. It was still an outstanding effort, just not as productive as called on the field.

We were thinking Lou would get tossed for sure but he was very subdued. Maybe he was still in spring training mode. I can't recall for sure if Lou came out to discuss the call before or after the video was shown.
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Old Wed Apr 07, 2010, 03:05pm
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Originally Posted by biggravy View Post
Quote:
Bad call adds to Cubs' Opening Day woes | cubs.com: News
Quote:

Interesting catch/no catch. To me watching the full speed replay it looked like an obvious no catch. One thing I was taught is to watch the player go into the glove for the ball. It looked pretty clear he did not reach into the glove. Granted, the TV had a different angle than anyone on field level. This isn't a fan boy thing before anyone says anything. I just think it's an interesting play and I've watched it over and over since this is something I don't want to have happen to me.

Another interesting thing, more on a psychological level, is what about the huge jumbotrons? I'm not advocating instant replay, actually I'm against it. I just think it would suck to be on the field, not be allowed to look at that 80' monitor, and then be able to tell from the crowd reaction that you kicked the call. :eek
:
IMO, the IR rule will start to expand for plays such as these. It's one thing in the regular season but in the play-offs. Also, there is precedent (if one of the umpires saw the no-catch) to reverse the call. Talk about the Braves it happened to them back when Willy Randolph was the skipper of the Mets.

Jose Reyes hit a sinking line drive that was a no-catch but ruled a catch on the field and a corresponding DP. Randolph questioned the call and the umpires huddled. After the huddle, crew chief Gerry Davis reversed the call to a no catch and declared the ball retroactively dead at the point of the call reversal and moved everyone up one base.

Therefore, if one of the umpires SAW the No catch the call could have been reversed. Also, I am shocked Pinella did not "go off" Perhaps it's old age or health reasons.

MLB is already gearing up towards expanded replay with the modification of the umpire rules that were published.

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Old Thu Apr 08, 2010, 08:20am
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I hope we don't have multiple holdups for IR over judgement calls.

I think Lou was chastened after his suspension in 2007 for a dirt and hat kicking tantrum. He later wrote the umpire an apology and I think he alluded to his family telling him they were embarrased for him.

He's gotten tossed a few times since then, but I don't think we'll tantrums out of him any more.
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Old Thu Apr 08, 2010, 08:27am
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[QUOTE=FredFan7;673128]
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I hope we don't have multiple holdups for IR over judgement calls.
The floodgates have been opened once Replay was adopted in baseball. It's like when football FIRST adopted the replay rule after the Renfro incident involving the the THEN Houston Oilers and the Steelers.

I believe at least for the playoffs IR is already expanded to include Fair / Foul and NOT just on HR's.

Replay is here and IMO, will be tweaked each and every year. It will be interesting to see if the PRO mechanics change.

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