Around the Horn

[Skarecrow]

With runners on any base, can the defense send the ball around the horn after a strikeout? Is it prohibited? Or can they can do so at their peril?

Had this in a BV, and I warned them....Coach who had attended either Evans' or Wendelstedt's school said they could do what they wanted with the ball, as long as they didn't delay, and around the horn is normal after a strikeout.

I didn't feel that right, but I had no specific knowledge at the time, so I let it pass.

[mbyron]

Legal. Ill-advised, since if they throw it out of play everyone moves up two bases, but legal.

I would not grant a request for time in order for the defense to safely throw it around.

[Skarecrow]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Legal. Ill-advised, since if they throw it out of play everyone moves up two bases, but legal.

I would not grant a request for time in order for the defense to safely throw it around.

Thanks for the input!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Skarecrow

With runners on any base, can the defense send the ball around the horn after a strikeout? Is it prohibited? Or can they can do so at their peril?

Had this in a BV, and I warned them....Coach who had attended either Evans' or Wendelstedt's school said they could do what they wanted with the ball, as long as they didn't delay, and around the horn is normal after a strikeout.

I didn't feel that right, but I had no specific knowledge at the time, so I let it pass.

Curious - why would you think it might be illegal?

[Skarecrow]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Curious - why would you think it might be illegal?

I had never seen it before, and it seemed like a "delay of game," which is obviously basketball, but it didn't seem right......that's why I asked....

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Skarecrow

With runners on any base, can the defense send the ball around the horn after a strikeout? Is it prohibited? Or can they can do so at their peril?

Had this in a BV, and I warned them....Coach who had attended either Evans' or Wendelstedt's school said they could do what they wanted with the ball, as long as they didn't delay, and around the horn is normal after a strikeout.

I didn't feel that right, but I had no specific knowledge at the time, so I let it pass.

You didn't feel it was right but had no specific knowledge at the time. So why did you warn them? What basis did you use?

This is not ridicule but here is another example of umpires making up rules. This is what gets us into trouble, all the time. We are there to officiate by the rules as written in the rule book. We do not officiate by our feelings.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Skarecrow

I had never seen it before, and it seemed like a "delay of game," which is obviously basketball, but it didn't seem right......that's why I asked....

You need to get the retired batter back to the dugout and the new batter to the plate so there's not much delaying going on with an around-the-hors.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Skarecrow

I had never seen it before, and it seemed like a "delay of game," which is obviously basketball, but it didn't seem right......that's why I asked....

"Delay of game"? Are you playing with a clock?

Now throwing it around, with runners on base, is just plain stupid. But there's nothing against the rules from doing it.

I take it BV is Boys Varsity. Geez, you'd think everyone involved would be at a higher level than this. Or perhaps, just perhaps, they were trying to trick the runner somehow. You don't want to stop this either.

[Skarecrow]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

You didn't feel it was right but had no specific knowledge at the time. So why did you warn them? What basis did you use?

This is not ridicule but here is another example of umpires making up rules. This is what gets us into trouble, all the time. We are there to officiate by the rules as written in the rule book. We do not officiate by our feelings.

Ozzy: Thanks for the critique...but I wasn't making up the rules....I quickly responded to my gut reaction (which was wrong) and told them to bring the ball in...Now I've learned, so shoot me in the head....baseball plays have lots of situations filled with nuances....our judgement differs. You can't tell me you've never had a gray-area play where the nuance had you puzzled, and yet you had to make a decision immediately, only to find out later, you got it wrong--even if only barely. That's what I did...I got it wrong, after rethinking all the rules I felt applied here...I didn't make up a rule....

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Skarecrow

Ozzy: Thanks for the critique...but I wasn't making up the rules....I quickly responded to my gut reaction (which was wrong) and told them to bring the ball in...Now I've learned, so shoot me in the head....baseball plays have lots of situations filled with nuances....our judgement differs. You can't tell me you've never had a gray-area play where the nuance had you puzzled, and yet you had to make a decision immediately, only to find out later, you got it wrong--even if only barely. That's what I did...I got it wrong, after rethinking all the rules I felt applied here...I didn't make up a rule....

The correct response here, my friend, is:
I learned my lesson, I was incorrect, I will not make up rules again.

Please be aware, when as an umpire, you try to apply a penalty that is not based in a rule, you are "making it up as you go". This is something that hounds all of us because when we get the next game with this team, they want to know why you did what you did. Why aren't we applying the same rule when the other team does it to them? When you "make it up", you are really screwing your brother and sister officials who work by the book. Making a mistake is something we all learn by but don't try to BS your way out. You screwed the pooch - we all did at one time or another. Be a man and admit it, then move on.

Finis

[Skarecrow]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The correct response here, my friend, is:
I learned my lesson, I was in correct, I will not make up rules again.

Please be aware, when as an umpire, you try to apply a penalty that is not based in a rule, you are "making it up as you go". This is something that hounds all of us because when we get the next game with this team, they want to know why you did what you did. Why aren't we applying the same rule when the other team does it to them? When you "make it up", you are really screwing your brother and sister officials who work by the book. Making a mistake is something we all learn by but don't try to BS your way out. You screwed the pooch - we all did at one time or another. Be a man and admit it, then move on.

Finis

I have.

[jicecone]

Skarecrow, I was going to offer the same advise when you first made your thread but didn't want to come off sounding like a mother hen. Now that Ozzy has opened the door and you have tripped over the first step may I just suggest to you that you spend more time reading both the rules and case books.

We have all been there however, you would be surprised how few "nuances" actually exist with a thorugh understanding of the rules. There are a few wrinkles here and there but, for the most part things are fairly black and white.

Welcome to the Forum and good luck.