Balk Called by Coach....

[lawump]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There's a specific rule in OBR (and, I think FED) where this is a "restart from scratch."

Johnnyg08: Bob's right. There's a specific rule in place. No balk. And yes, this rule exists in FED.

[johnnyg08]

If the pitcher pitches, we can play on? Do we have to judge if the comment made by the player or coach was intended to get the pitcher to balk...or just a coincidence?

[ManInBlue]

His comment wasn't intended to make the pitcher balk, it just worked out that way. He was yelling at you (or your partner). He was pointing out an infraction that he thought he saw. He wasn't yelling "balk" to make the pitcher balk.

I've got nothing, and warn the coach. Repeat offense by anyone on his team is an ejection.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I had one last season where the batter verbally asked for time as the pitcher was starting his delivery. The pitcher stopped his delivery. I did call the balk in that situation and I feel that I made the right call under the circumstances. There is an element of judgement in these cases right? Other than the super-obvious ones I suppose.

johnny,

To me, it sounds like you kicked this one. Just because nobody complains, it doesn't mean you got it right.

Would the pitcher have balked if the batter hadn't asked for Time?

JM

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

To me, it sounds like you kicked this one. Just because nobody complains, it doesn't mean you got it right.

+1

Seems to be exactly the situation covered by 6-2-4 (d1):
"If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery
because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with
both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a
balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher
The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew."

[johnnyg08]

I agree with the just because nobody came out piece. I wasn't necessarily using that as my measuring stick. I guess I'm having a hard time deciding what is coincidence and what is causing the pitcher to balk.

To answer your question JM...If the batter didn't say anything...then I would say that "no, the pitcher probably wouldn't have balked"

I guess I understand giving "time" when F1 is freezing the hitter, and I understand the pieces where offense will try to throw of F1's rhythm by asking for time during their AB's...but how do we judge when to not give "time." By not giving the batter "time" when the pitcher is set and ready to pitch, we seem to be protecting the pitcher, but then as soon as he balks, then we bail out F1.

Obviously, I'm going to try to defend my call, but I can see the other side too...I could've simply called time, with the proverbial "do over" but all the other what if's pop into my mind.

Any pointers out there for how to develop good judgement around these types of plays would be great.

Trust me, I have a few "do-overs" on this type of play every year...this was one of the only ones where I called a balk.

[johnnyg08]

Except he didn't hold up his hand. Batter did not move from his normal hitting stance. We can't add words to the rules right? In my sitch...the batter did none of what is listed there. So I guess my question is, when a batter does none of the above in terms of what's written in the rule...why do we bail the pitcher out. Thank you for your feedback guys.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Any pointers out there for how to develop good judgement around these types of plays would be great.

Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgment.

(And, as an aside, judicious use of the quote feature would make your posts easier to follow).

[bossman72]

Give the benefit of the doubt to F1. I'm in the camp that says to nullify the balk if the coach says "GO GO GO!" Aside from baserunners running bases, if the offense causes the balk, nullify it.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

His comment wasn't intended to make the pitcher balk, it just worked out that way.

Close enough for government work. If you believe the rule requires intent, then I have intent. No balk.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Any pointers out there for how to develope good judgement around these types of plays would be great

As Bob has already stated,"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgment."

Two past incidents that stand out in my mind. Amateur Ball. R3 taking a lead and yelling at the pitcher during his wind up. Obvious, yes. Did we eject, no. Could we have, yes. Instead it was a quick "Time, with a warning.

Batter in box. R3, tied score, bott of 7th. Legion ball. Batter steps to front of box, turns a 360 and gets set again. Pitcher balks. I call time and "Do over." Was the batter attempting to bring the winning run home? I thought so but, I choose to handle it differntly. HC argues that there is no such thing as a do-over and I explain that my other alternative is to eject the batter.

I realize this may have been handled differently by others here including myself at higher levels of ball but, I just wanted to point out two situations I have seen.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Aside from baserunners running bases, if the offense causes the balk, nullify it.

Not so much.

There are legal actions by the offense aside from running that may induce a balk. There are illegal actions which may do so, as well.

Only nullify the balk on the illegal ones.

[greymule]

R3 taking a lead and yelling at the pitcher during his wind up.

That was routine when I played, but runners knew they couldn't yell "balk" or "time" or something else an umpire might say. But I remember well when it seemed that during most of a ball game, everyone was yelling something at somebody.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There's a specific rule in OBR (and, I think FED) where this is a "restart from scratch."

NCAA has the same rule as well.. I had this happen in a College game last year...LOL

[Crabnut]

Dash had it right to start with. If either coach or batter (but especially the coach) does something that you recognize as precipitating the balk, intentional or not, first call "TIME." You have about a half second to replay the situation in your mind. If the coach intentionally did it, the ejection is easy, but you could warn as well depending on the severity. The coach crossed the line and is at the mercy of your ruling. With the player, having asked for time, he has bailed the pitcher out himself. I don't like pitchers, but once the batter requests "time," the pitcher has the advantage.