The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 17, 2004, 05:54pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
A fellow ump made this call and asked me for my opinion: R1, R2, less than 2 outs. R2 advances to third on a fly out. The pitcher then toes the rubber, steps off and throws to second to appeal that R2 left before the catch. The ump called a balk rationalizing that the pitcher was throwing to an unoccupied base. He defended his call by saying that the pitcher nor anyone else on the defense indicated their intentions until after he called the balk. Intuitively I don't think the ump was right. I could have sworn there was some language in OBR about the defense's actions being "unmistakeable" as to their intentions, but I can't find it right now.

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 17, 2004, 07:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 114
Let's see...
Pitcher has posession of the ball and engages the rubber.
Pitcher legally disengages the rubber and tosses ball to 2nd for an appeal.
When diengaged from the rubber, pitcher is a fielder.
Only pitchers can balk.
No balk. Live ball.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jul 17, 2004, 08:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,726
Quote:
Originally posted by Lapopez
I could have sworn there was some language in OBR about the defense's actions being "unmistakeable" as to their intentions, but I can't find it right now.

Paul
See the last comment to 7.10
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 18, 2004, 12:09am
DG DG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,022
Not a balk if he legally disengaged. I have never seen an appeal that I was not expecting, either because I saw the runner miss the base, or because the coaches or other players were calling it. If he steps off legally what is the rational for calling a balk, regardless of whether the intention was clear?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 18, 2004, 12:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to akalsey Send a message via Yahoo to akalsey
Because he threw to an unoccupied base.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 18, 2004, 12:35am
DG DG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,022
Quote:
Originally posted by akalsey
Because he threw to an unoccupied base.
If he steps off the rubber legally he can only be accused of delaying the game.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 18, 2004, 09:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,726
Quote:
Originally posted by akalsey
Because he threw to an unoccupied base.
But he wasn't a "pitcher, while touching his plate" as required by 8.05(d)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 18, 2004, 09:55am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,741
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by akalsey
Because he threw to an unoccupied base.
But he wasn't a "pitcher, while touching his plate" as required by 8.05(d)
And regardless, even if he was touching the plate, it was for the specific purpose of making an appeal, which is not a balk.

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 18, 2004, 07:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to akalsey Send a message via Yahoo to akalsey
Maybe I should read threads from the beginning before I participate.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 19, 2004, 07:24am
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

And regardless, even if he was touching the plate, it was for the specific purpose of making an appeal, which is not a balk.

[/B]
Is it relevant that the defense did not announce their intentions? My ump friend claimed the actions were not "unmistakable" to him. (I am not going to try and make excuses for him, I'm just asking for a face-value answer.)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 19, 2004, 08:40am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 26
Quote:
...claimed the actions were not "unmistakable" to him.
Why in the world would they be throwing to second right after a tag play there except to appeal? Did he offer a theory on that?
__________________
Thanks,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 19, 2004, 09:03am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,741
Quote:
Originally posted by Lapopez
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

And regardless, even if he was touching the plate, it was for the specific purpose of making an appeal, which is not a balk.
Is it relevant that the defense did not announce their intentions? My ump friend claimed the actions were not "unmistakable" to him. (I am not going to try and make excuses for him, I'm just asking for a face-value answer.) [/B]
Not relevant. Why else would the pitcher throw to second and the fielder step on the base? You don't have to "announce" an appeal. If there's a line drive to second and the ball is thrown to first to double up R1, do they "announce" that appeal?

--Rich
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 19, 2004, 12:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally posted by woolnojg
Let's see...
Pitcher has posession of the ball and engages the rubber.
Pitcher legally disengages the rubber and tosses ball to 2nd for an appeal.
When diengaged (sic) from the rubber, pitcher is a fielder.
Only pitchers can balk.
No balk. Live ball.
Careful there. This is not completely true:

Example: OBR 8.05 (g) (If there is a runner or runners on basem it is a balk when-)

The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is NOT touching the pitcher's plate.

AND

8.05 (i) The pitcher, without having the ball, stands on, OR ASTRIDE the pitcher's plate, or WHILE OFF THE PLATE, feints a pitch.
__________________
GB
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 19, 2004, 08:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 114
OK, OK.
Your example ahs him imitating a pitcher, which causes the balk.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 19, 2004, 09:53pm
DG DG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,022
Quote:
Originally posted by Lapopez
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

And regardless, even if he was touching the plate, it was for the specific purpose of making an appeal, which is not a balk.
Is it relevant that the defense did not announce their intentions? My ump friend claimed the actions were not "unmistakable" to him. (I am not going to try and make excuses for him, I'm just asking for a face-value answer.) [/B]
I have never had an appeal play where I was not expecting it, either because I saw the runner miss the base or because I heard someone talking about making an appeal, such as coaches or other players hollering instructions. Often, the advice is wrong, but there is no mistake about what is going on. If I ever get surprised by the appeal, I will signal safe and be done with it (assuming it is my call to make).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1