Appeal/Balk Called (OBR)

Lapopez · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 17, 2004, 05:54pm

A fellow ump made this call and asked me for my opinion: R1, R2, less than 2 outs. R2 advances to third on a fly out. The pitcher then toes the rubber, steps off and throws to second to appeal that R2 left before the catch. The ump called a balk rationalizing that the pitcher was throwing to an unoccupied base. He defended his call by saying that the pitcher nor anyone else on the defense indicated their intentions until after he called the balk. Intuitively I don't think the ump was right. I could have sworn there was some language in OBR about the defense's actions being "unmistakeable" as to their intentions, but I can't find it right now.

Paul

woolnojg · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 17, 2004, 07:30pm

Let's see...
Pitcher has posession of the ball and engages the rubber.
Pitcher legally disengages the rubber and tosses ball to 2nd for an appeal.
When diengaged from the rubber, pitcher is a fielder.
Only pitchers can balk.
No balk. Live ball.

bob jenkins · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 17, 2004, 08:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Lapopez
I could have sworn there was some language in OBR about the defense's actions being "unmistakeable" as to their intentions, but I can't find it right now.

Paul

See the last comment to 7.10

DG · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 18, 2004, 12:09am

Not a balk if he legally disengaged. I have never seen an appeal that I was not expecting, either because I saw the runner miss the base, or because the coaches or other players were calling it. If he steps off legally what is the rational for calling a balk, regardless of whether the intention was clear?

akalsey · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 18, 2004, 12:26am

Because he threw to an unoccupied base.

DG · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 18, 2004, 12:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
Because he threw to an unoccupied base.

If he steps off the rubber legally he can only be accused of delaying the game.

bob jenkins · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 18, 2004, 09:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
Because he threw to an unoccupied base.

But he wasn't a "pitcher, while touching his plate" as required by 8.05(d)

Rich · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 18, 2004, 09:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
Because he threw to an unoccupied base.

But he wasn't a "pitcher, while touching his plate" as required by 8.05(d)

And regardless, even if he was touching the plate, it was for the specific purpose of making an appeal, which is not a balk.

akalsey · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 18, 2004, 07:49pm

Maybe I should read threads from the beginning before I participate.

Lapopez · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 07:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

And regardless, even if he was touching the plate, it was for the specific purpose of making an appeal, which is not a balk.

[/B]

Is it relevant that the defense did not announce their intentions? My ump friend claimed the actions were not "unmistakable" to him. (I am not going to try and make excuses for him, I'm just asking for a face-value answer.)

YoungRighty · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 08:40am

Quote:

...claimed the actions were not "unmistakable" to him.

Why in the world would they be throwing to second right after a tag play there except to appeal? Did he offer a theory on that?

Rich · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 09:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by Lapopez

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

And regardless, even if he was touching the plate, it was for the specific purpose of making an appeal, which is not a balk.

Is it relevant that the defense did not announce their intentions? My ump friend claimed the actions were not "unmistakable" to him. (I am not going to try and make excuses for him, I'm just asking for a face-value answer.) [/B]

Not relevant. Why else would the pitcher throw to second and the fielder step on the base? You don't have to "announce" an appeal. If there's a line drive to second and the ball is thrown to first to double up R1, do they "announce" that appeal?

--Rich

GarthB · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 12:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by woolnojg
Let's see...
Pitcher has posession of the ball and engages the rubber.
Pitcher legally disengages the rubber and tosses ball to 2nd for an appeal.
When diengaged (sic) from the rubber, pitcher is a fielder.
Only pitchers can balk.
No balk. Live ball.

Careful there. This is not completely true:

Example: OBR 8.05 (g) (If there is a runner or runners on basem it is a balk when-)

The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is NOT touching the pitcher's plate.

AND

8.05 (i) The pitcher, without having the ball, stands on, OR ASTRIDE the pitcher's plate, or WHILE OFF THE PLATE, feints a pitch.

woolnojg · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 08:30pm

OK, OK.
Your example ahs him imitating a pitcher, which causes the balk.

DG · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 09:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Lapopez

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

And regardless, even if he was touching the plate, it was for the specific purpose of making an appeal, which is not a balk.

Is it relevant that the defense did not announce their intentions? My ump friend claimed the actions were not "unmistakable" to him. (I am not going to try and make excuses for him, I'm just asking for a face-value answer.) [/B]

I have never had an appeal play where I was not expecting it, either because I saw the runner miss the base or because I heard someone talking about making an appeal, such as coaches or other players hollering instructions. Often, the advice is wrong, but there is no mistake about what is going on. If I ever get surprised by the appeal, I will signal safe and be done with it (assuming it is my call to make).