Mark McGwire admits to long-term steroid use!

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Major League Baseball drug policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

Yes there are sources that references what could be taken at that time.

For those that do no want to read, the policy was taken into affect in 2006.

Peace

Clever.

Those refer to the new policy implemented after the Mitchel Report that REPLACED the ban that was already in effect since 1991. The new policy provided specific punishment rather than leaving it to the commissioner on a case by case basis. Never the less, steroids were already banned back in 1991.

Baseball's Steroid Era: Written Steroid EraTimeline

Jun. 7, 1991 – Commissioner Fay Vincent Issues Memo Regarding Steroid Use
After the U.S. Congress raises penalties for steroid possession, Commissioner Fay Vincent sends a memo to each team indicating that steroids would be added to Major League Baseball’s banned list. The memo stated: "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited ... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids." The seven-page document didn't include a testing plan -- that had to be bargained with the union -- but it did outline treatment and penalties.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Clever.

Those refer to the new policy implemented after the Mitchel Report that REPLACED the ban that was already in effect since 1991. The new policy provided specific punishment rather than leaving it to the commissioner on a case by case basis. Never the less, steroids were already banned back in 1991.

Baseball's Steroid Era: Written Steroid EraTimeline

Jun. 7, 1991 – Commissioner Fay Vincent Issues Memo Regarding Steroid Use
After the U.S. Congress raises penalties for steroid possession, Commissioner Fay Vincent sends a memo to each team indicating that steroids would be added to Major League Baseball’s banned list. The memo stated: "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited ... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids." The seven-page document didn't include a testing plan -- that had to be bargained with the union -- but it did outline treatment and penalties.

What was the penalty with the old policy? A stronger letter home to mom? Did anyone miss games?

Was there testing? And how did they determine someone was using those drugs? Lie detector testing? Media reports? Parent letters to the commissioner?

I guess the Olympics got it all wrong, they actually test for substances rather than take someone's word for it.

Peace

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What was the penalty with the old policy? A stronger letter home to mom? Did anyone miss games?

Was there testing? And how did they determine someone was using those drugs? Lie detector testing? Media reports? Parent letters to the commissioner?

I guess the Olympics got it all wrong, they actually test for substances rather than take someone's word for it.

Peace

Stick to the topic. You have been claiming that there was no ban on steroids. That is patently false.

If you want to talk about enforcement, that's a different issue. What everyone here has been saying is that McGwire violated MLB policy and Federal law by using steroids without a prescription. And that is the truth.

The fact that he wasn't caught or or wasn't punished has nothing to do with it.

Just becuase you don't get a ticket everytime you speed doesn't mean you didn't speed.

You're starting to sound like a coach...."It's only illegal if you get caught."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Stick to the topic. You have been claiming that there was no ban on steroids. That is patently false.

If you want to talk about enforcement, that's a different issue. What everyone here has been saying is that McGwire violated MLB policy and Federal law by using steroids without a prescription. And that is the truth.

The fact that he wasn't caught or or wasn't punished has nothing to do with it.

Just becuase you don't get a ticket everytime you speed doesn't mean you didn't speed.

You're starting to sound like a coach...."It's only illegal if you get caught."

I did not say there was absolutely no steroids ban, I said that there was not testing and they were not illegal to use for all kinds of reasons. And to say there is a ban, but we are going to look the other way is not much of a ban. You can play the semantics game all you want to, but there was no way to find out who was using and how as other sports had drug testing in place that clearly banned not only steroids but many other substances as well. And there was no policy to suspend players for such usage. The union and the owners had not agreed to such a policy so it was allowed no matter if MLB tried to say it was illegal in a memo. To make something illegal you have to have a policy and a standing punishment in place. Maybe I am missing something, but I have never seen a law that makes something illegal, but we have no punishment for the crime. That is basically what MLB did. And BTW, Big Mac took Androstenedione and had the substance in his locker in 1998. It is a steroid or has steroid substances in it and Big Mac was never suspended for it and was never told to stop using it. Bud Selig even was asked about this substance and he knew nothing about it and claimed there was no steroid problem in baseball. Mac even openly talked about it in interviews and talked about how it "helped me recover quicker from working out." Then I believe the following year MLB outlawed it, but as before did not test for it to catch people that were using the substance.

You can call it whatever you want to, unless they test for a substance, it is not illegal. Memos do not make them illegal unless you have a way to prove someone is using something. MLB turned the other way until Congress called them to the carpet and Canseco wrote a book on the topic.

Peace

[SAump]

Brian McNamee lawyer: Roger Clemens can never come clean ala Mark McGwire

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not say there was absolutely no steroids ban, I said that there was not testing and they were not illegal to use for all kinds of reasons.

Really?

According to MLB and the Mitchell Report and the Players Association steroids have been specifically banned since 1991.

And BTW, Big Mac took Androstenedione and had the substance in his locker in 1998. It is a steroid or has steroid substances in it and Big Mac was never suspended for it and was never told to stop using it.

Andro was legal at the time. No one has stated otherwise.

You can call it whatever you want to, unless they test for a substance, it is not illegal.

In your world perhaps. but in the real world the ban was not conditional on testing and still isn't. The ban is the ban. Testing and suspension are distinctly separate issues. Just like in the rest of the society, a criminal act is a criminal act, it is not defined by its punishment.

You may wish otherwise, but that's all it is, a wish.

[JRutledge]

Again, you can play the semantics game. How about this, name one player before there was testing that was suspended for steroid use? Just one will do.

Let us take it a step further. Bonds was linked to the Balco situation and he was never suspended and allowed to break Hank Aaron's record well after many players were linked to this company. If there was this ban, why was Bonds not suspended by MLB for using of steroid. He admitted to not knowingly taking a substance that he thought was steroids, but was found out to be some kind of steroid. If it was banned, then why was he allowed to continue to play? And if steroids were banned, what does that have to do with this discussion now? The Hall of Fame does not have a policy to keep players out that were known steroids users. There is no such policy, but you claim there was this clear ban.

Peace

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again, you can play the semantics game. How about this, name one player before there was testing that was suspended for steroid use? Just one will do.

Peace

Me playing semantics? That's rich.

I have no idea if there was one. Suspension has nothing to do with the FACT that PEDS were banned.

Now, answer me this, yes or no....was steroid use by MLB players, without a prescription, illegal under law and prohibited by MLB from 1991 forward?

Hint:

According to the Mitchell Report, Congress, MLB and Mark McGwire, the answer is "yes."

Your answer is? Remember just yes or no. No "playing semantics."