Mark McGwire admits to long-term steroid use!

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

If the Hall is about CHARACTER then at least 75% of the players already inducted should not be in there.
Pete Booth

While I am not naive, nor a purist, I find that number a bit high.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth:
If the Hall is about CHARACTER then at least 75% of the players already inducted should not be in there.


And how can one be as impulsive and imprecise as that, and still expect to be a credible judge of another man's character?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Who really gives a crap anyway? Does it affect you or your paycheck? All this mess does is bring baseball down yet another notch. Baseball banned the Chicago boys but kept a beer toting philanderer like the Babe. They threw out Rose because he put a black eye on the Game yet they turned the other way with "juice". Face it, Baseball just does as it pleases to keep face and all the pi$$ing and moaning from the fans won't do jack crap to fix it. Personally, I could care less who is in the Hall of Flame because it does nothing for me or my life. My input as to who gets into the Hall means nothing so I don't bother to argue. Baseball is like the Government. Don't do this today but tomorrow you can do it all you want - as long as we are not looking.

Get a life, people! You are just umpires and fans of the Game. try to remember your place!

So true, so true. And no matter what anyone says, baseball did not outlaw taking substances and a memo does not change that. And this situation with Big Mac was created by the powers that be. They only have themselves to blame and why they will have to deal with players that were the best of their era under complete and total perception of cheating the game no matter what you think. And you have arrogant media people who want to say someone that they never saw play were better than current players. It is all kind of humorous to me.

Peace

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And no matter what anyone says, baseball did not outlaw taking substances and a memo does not change that.

http://www.steroidsinbaseball.net/assets/memo.pdf

And the truth shall set you free.

[TussAgee11]

Jeeze, legality and enforcement principles are two completely different things. You think any decent umpire would understand that.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Jeeze, legality and enforcement principles are two completely different things. You think any decent umpire would understand that.

You'd think, wouldn't you?

Then again, perhaps the difficulty lies in the qualifier in your second sentence.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Ump153

http://www.steroidsinbaseball.net/assets/memo.pdf

And the truth shall set you free.

Interesting. The 1991 ban came complete with testing and discipline. Puts the lie to J/R's babble, doesn't it?

I'm sure he'll invent something to dispose of this reality as well. In fact, it should be coming soon...wait for it...here it comes...

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Jeeze, legality and enforcement principles are two completely different things. You think any decent umpire would understand that.

You would think.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ump153

You'd think, wouldn't you?

Then again, perhaps the difficulty lies in the qualifier in your second sentence.

Obviously you do not understand the difference. Pete Rose is banned from baseball. He cannot hold a position in baseball. He cannot watch a game in a baseball stadium. He cannot even help out in spring training with players and teams and pass down the wisdom of hitting.

Mark McGwire is currently the Hitting Coach for the St. Louis Cardinals. Not only has he admitted to using what you call an illegal substance and was never suspended as a player for using any substance and all his records stand. But I guess steroids were banned right? Funny how the same applies to Sosa, Bonds, A-Rod, Manny or any other player that admits or found to using steroids or any illegal substances. Better yet, if other teams wanted to hire those individuals I just mentioned to positions in the front office or on the managerial staffs of those teams, they could. Wow, that must have been some memo.

And if the sports writers choose to vote McGwire in the HOF, they can. If they sports writers want to vote Rose into the Hall of Fame, Rose is not on the ballet. But you seem to have a good grasp of illegality and punishment.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Debating JR is like the proverbial "nailing jello to the wall." His logic is fluid with no constraints. He ignores facts. He creates facts. He changes his positions then denies doing so. He will deny saying something that can still be seen in his prior posts. Then he will lock on an argument that is so absurd it can hardly be debated within the confines of broadband. (For example, "if no one has been punished for a certain action, no law or prohibition against that action can exist.")

Fortunately he is unique. If you will note, not one of over a hundred posters at this site agrees with him, which gives us hope for this site.

My advice is to give up. You can present facts, you can demonstrate reality, you can discuss possibilities. You can't make someone think.

+1.

I generally ignore his logic-impaired pap. Every so often I can't help myself. I'm grateful for the ignore feature at those times.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if the sports writers choose to vote McGwire in the HOF, they can. If they sports writers want to vote Rose into the Hall of Fame, Rose is not on the ballet. But you seem to have a good grasp of illegality and punishment.

I love this one best. A manager gambling on games and a player taking steroids. Very similar. Hard to believe the punishment doesn't match.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I love this one best. A manager gambling on games and a player taking steroids. Very similar. Hard to believe the punishment doesn't match.

You can say whatever you like, what they do does not make one bit of difference in my life. Apparently it does for you. Oh well.

I did not even know you existed until we had this conversation just now.

Peace

[Kevin Finnerty]

Intractable and an absolute, bald-faced liar. Nice combination.

[SAump]

Lyle Martin Alzado (April 3, 1949 – May 14, 1992) Alzado is probably most remembered today for being one of the first major U.S. sports figures to admit using steroids. In the last years of his life, as he battled against the brain tumor that eventually caused his death at the age of 43, Alzado asserted that his steroid abuse directly led to his fatal illness, but each of his physicians stated it could not be true, and that while steroids do have harsh side effects, they were not the cause of his brain cancer. According to some reports, Alzado was using natural growth hormone, harvested from human corpses, as opposed to synthetic growth hormones. However, shortly before his death, Alzado recounted his steroid abuse in an article in Sports Illustrated.

Reading this thread reminded me of why the honest Cleveland Indians never stand a chance of winning a World Series. MLB turned its nose away from enforcement policies. Ken Camineti was breaking the rules between the BAN in 1991, and the enforcement which didn't kick in until 2006. Those existing steroid ban policies were not worth the paper it was written on prior to 2006. in 2002, Camineti made "the first public admission of steroid use by any professional baseball player."

BTW, Barry Bonds is a super baseball star. Both his baseball career and his commitment to excellence speaks for itself, but his trainer is really my superhero. Gotta love his chutzpah. How much did the government spend on that aimless indictment?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Intractable and an absolute, bald-faced liar. Nice combination.

Sorry Kevin, I do not follow this board like you do. Outside of this conversation I do not remember ever talking to you. I do not even really like talking baseball that much until the basketball season is completely over (March Madness included). I honestly do not know who you are and you are not someone that I turn to for positions on anything here. Sorry, but you are not. I would not even know your pattern because I would not be following it.

Peace