Partner Not Willing To Take Care of Business

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by bossman72

What would a good reply be to this coach if you were the BU? I'm always looking for "rebuttal lines."

Rebuttal lines rarely diffuse the situation. Often the opposite.

[PeteBooth]

From the OP

Damn, Billy! That's two you've blown so far!".

Billy's Rebuttal: Skip that's nothing wait until the next one.

Pete Booth

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Chris_Hickman

I was wondering... this is a routine grounder. Why do you need to signal to your partner that "you" are stayin' home? The only signalling at pre-pitch is a 1st to 3rd rotation. This whole post sounds kinda weird to me.....

Nothing wierd, Chris, just trying to get a discussion going.

I added this signaling thing to keep people on the post, not a tangent. In the past, most people would jump on the fact that you didn't let your partner know that you were staying "home". I don't signal this either but as I said, just for discussion purposes.

[ODJ]

If a vet, I'd get to the coach between innings and tell him I'll take care of biz if my partner doesn't.
One trick I've learned is to pull out the line-up card when approaching the coach. That way only he and I know the true nature of our chat.

[nfua-44]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Nothing wierd, Chris, just trying to get a discussion going.

I added this signaling thing to keep people on the post, not a tangent. In the past, most people would jump on the fact that you didn't let your partner know that you were staying "home". I don't signal this either but as I said, just for discussion purposes.

Thanks for the clarification Ozzy, and the OP too! Most of this depends on the particular level of my Partner. Personally I have zero fuse for the comment he just made, but I'm also not one to jump into my Partner's issues because in most cases your going to look like your undermining him.

Now with a brand new greenie, I would have to say I'm going to find a way (lineup card, etc.) to have a chat with skip on the down low if my guy just doesn't have the hutzpah yet. From there I would try to make sure we've got the time to do a detailed post game.

In general if I'm working with a regular partner any of those types of comments get the automatic whoosh. I had a damn scorekeeper in the dugout pop off about "calling it both ways" on a breaking pitch, and that was an automatic in my book.

[TxUmp]

Originally Posted by nfua-44

I had a damn scorekeeper in the dugout pop off about "calling it both ways" on a breaking pitch, and that was an automatic in my book.

That is one of my MAJOR pet peeves! Only when it comes from the field or benches. The fans pay their money and get to say (almost) anything they want. But when it comes from any of the participants, it strongly implies that I am calling the situation one way for the other team, but not for theirs. That says "Hey Blue! You are cheating!" A team gets a single warning from me - not in that game - for every game I call for them in the future. Some coaches and players are very surprised when they get an immediate and very stern warning from me when I hear that phrase. I have had coaches tell me that they didn't mean it that way, but now that they thought about it, they actually agreed with me. Some use that phrase like it is a toss-off saying without realizing the implications of what they are saying. Then again, they probably do, but have never been called on it.

[spokanelurker]

I'm a little late to this party and I don't know if anyone's still interested, but I just looked at the OP and immediately was wondering why R3 was going on the pitch with no outs and second base open, and it wasn't a squeeze. If that's an accurate representation of the situation (perhaps it was R1 and R2 instead?) the coach is an idiot even before he argues.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Chris_Hickman

I was wondering... this is a routine grounder. Why do you need to signal to your partner that "you" are stayin' home? The only signalling at pre-pitch is a 1st to 3rd rotation. This whole post sounds kinda weird to me.....

I thought the same thing, also.

[jicecone]

Ozzy, there are those that are interested in the point your are trying to discuss here and those that think every literal word typed here should be critiqued. The grammaticians and spell checkers will follow along shortly, thats for sure.

If I am working with another vet, chances are he will take care of his business when HE feels it is neccessary, so I am going to let him handle it his way. However, I may just jump on the coach a little sooner if by chance he shifts any comments my way, just to let him know that even though he has a dispute with my partner, I have heard enough, period. Hey maybe my partner did bang the two calls and is giving the coach some rope. Had to be there situation.

If I am work with a rookie, I would have to judge the situation. Did he bang the calls? Sometimes letting a rookie get a little dirty is good experience. See how he handles the situation but cover his wing at all times. If they were solid banger calls I might just jump in with a quick "Good call John", just to let the coach know where I stand without directly intervening.

Two complaints about calls don't necessarily mean action is required but I certainly would not let it continue much further.

I tend to give the coaches a lot of rope, what they choose to do with it is their business but believe me, THEY KNOW who is in charge of the game.

The only acceptable rebuttal is none at all or "thats enough". Making a sarcastic one is just plain baiting.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

R1 & R3, no outs and both are off with the pitch. There is a hot grounder to F6 who chooses to heave it to F3 and get the BR. You had no choice but "stay home" (you signaled to your partner that you were "staying home")

Ozzy I hear where you are coming from about signalling especially working with a rookie or someone you never worked with and although you asked a different question I would like to add to your OP.

Same sitch as you describe and you signal to your partner, HOWEVER he POINTS to you anyway.

Now what do you do?

As PU you have NO CLUE whether the fielder tagged said runner or F3 pulled his foot etc. HOWEVER, a call has to be made because there is LIVE action going on. You have 3 runners R1/R3 and the BR and during LIVE action your partner "out of the blue" pointed to you to make the call at first base.

if you say nothing, remember action is still live so you could have runners continuing running etc.

Therefore, in addition to what you posted what do you do when your partner points to you during LIVE action and you haven't a clue on what the right call is.

I guess someone is going to get dumped.

Good topic

Pete Booth

[nfua-44]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;641097]

Same sitch as you describe and you signal to your partner, HOWEVER he POINTS to you anyway.

Now what do you do?

As PU you have NO CLUE whether the fielder tagged said runner or F3 pulled his foot etc. HOWEVER, a call has to be made because there is LIVE action going on. You have 3 runners R1/R3 and the BR and during LIVE action your partner "out of the blue" pointed to you to make the call at first base.

if you say nothing, remember action is still live so you could have runners continuing running etc.

Pete Booth

Yikes..........My smartass response would be to point right back at him with a what ya got look, however that's going to create so many more issues than I'm going to want to deal with!

I'm gonna be forced to make a call, (quickly since it's live) and since I didn't see an out, I can't call it, so I'm going with what I got, and I'm gonna have to swallow hard to try and keep the coach in the game. This is a moment where I'm going to give skip some latitude and if he asks me for an appeal, I'm gonna get with the partner and try to sort out what we've got, try to get the call right, and start preparing my lecture for the post-game finale!

Tom

[Chris_Hickman]

... I was not trying to disect anyone's post. Why not just ask this:

What do you do if your partner, who is on the bases, has 2-3 wackers that the 3rd base coach doesn't like and the coach is chirpin' WAY too much and your partner is ignoring it?

short and sweet........

I kinda got "thrown " on the " you have no choice but to stay home " thing. it's 2 man.. R1 and R3 moving on the pitch... who cares. This is a simple play in the infield. If the baseguy doesnt know that he has the call at 1st, maybe he needs to go officiate checkers. I think Ozzy got too wrapped up in all the useless info.

As to Pete's situations.. I have seen that happen first hand. Guys pointing to the plateguy for a swipe tag/ pulled foot. A good pre-game should clear this up. On a R1 and R3 play with a grounder in the infield, the PU slides 1st base extended to see the touch of home and see a possible swipe tag/ pulled foot @ 1st. Yes, this CAN BE seen by the plateguy if he is doing his job. Some plate guys stay point of plate and don't even look up the line on that play. Shame on them.

This is not a slam post... nothing personal..


BTW, here is a short video demonstrating the fine art of pointing to your plateguy for help. Classic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIUp0TPQHcM

[ozzy6900]

We are kind of getting away from the whole thing here.

Chris, the signal I was referring to is given at the start of he at bat, not during the play, but we both know that it is irrelevant. I was not offended by your post so don't worry about other's comments.

Pete, yeah! How many times have we seen this happen where the play is on the bases and the BU points into the PU. I'm from the old school of get your own call (my calls) but I always try to keep my eye out for my partner (whenever it's possible).

Okay all. Yes this was a real situation and my partner was one of our veterans. It's not normal for him to let comments like this go but for some reason, he was just not responding.

I walked up the 3rd base line and calmly said, "Okay, Coach PITA, you've had your say now that's enough. Let's get back to the game now." His response was "Shut up, I'm not talking......."

The hook flew, the coach started a scene (nose to nose) and NOW my partner came down to escort Coach PITA away. After the game, I thanked my partner for escorting Coach PITA away and he appologized saying he just wasn't "in the game". Hey, it happens!

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

So you are settled in at the plate and your partner has had a few bangers. He seems to be doing fine although Coach PITA has had a few comments on the base calls.

R1 & R3, no outs and both are off with the pitch. There is a hot grounder to F6 who chooses to heave it to F3 and get the BR. You had no choice but "stay home" (you signaled to your partner that you were "staying home") so your partner has all the base calls. He bang out the BR, and Coach PITA starts another disapproval concert from the 3rd base box.

Your partner just goes to his position and says nothing to Coach PITA when the Coach hollers, "Damn, Billy! That's two you've blown so far!". Your partner says absolutley nothing and you are fuming over this Coach.

Now I know that this has happened to all of us and I would like to know what my brothers would do.

Do you dump Coach PITA?
Do you tell Coach PITA "That's enough!"?
Do you do nothing?

How I handle situations depends upon the level I'm working AND if the Head Coach faces consquences if he's dumped. No accountability I have the choke collar pulled tight. If they are fined or have to answer to the AD if ejected I have them on a leash. That's two calls you've blown. He's expressing an opinion and I can probably live with that comment.

Had a similar situation working with a guy on his first Varsity Game. He asked for the plate. One of the Coaches was on his *** periodically during the game. I feel that if as long as it's one on one I let my partner deal with it. My partner was obviously intimidated. He's a good umpire but at the time he didn't have the confidence to do the right thing. Later in the game he came out to question one of my calls. Since this was a high school game I seized the moment and restricted him to the dugout. I had no reason to eject, and I protected my partner without embarassing him.

[nfua-44]

From the OP in part

Coach PITA when the Coach hollers, "Damn, Billy! That's two you've blown so far!".

It's not a question of Me taking it personally. ANY statement that starts with you means someone is addressing your person. Skip is the one who has now made it personal, and in this case, has done so in a very "public" manner. I haven't been to a clinic, or read a reference where that type of behavior is acceptable.

That said, I've certainly had times where Skip has come up and told me his "opinion" of the call that was just made, but he has done so in a reasonable manner, and if he was standing in front of me talking and voiced his opinion including "you", I would be much more inclined to leave him in the game, state what I have, and move things along.

Tom