The death of the neighborhood play...

[mbyron]

The problem is that the neighborhood play is not dead. Some umpires still give it, some don't. The problem is that we're in transition, which means that players don't know how it will be called. Ignorance is stressful.

In a HS game, I do not call the neighborhood play: the sliding rules protect the fielder. No reason for the neighborhood play.

In MLB, I think that the current lack of a settled ruling on this play is unsustainable. Coaches and players will be rightly concerned about fielder safety if the decision is not to allow the neighborhood play any longer. Umpires are rightly concerned that the neighborhood play is a rules violation and looks like a bad call on super-slo-mo replay.

Something will have to be changed, and preferably changed publicly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The problem is that the neighborhood play is not dead. Some umpires still give it, some don't. The problem is that we're in transition, which means that players don't know how it will be called. Ignorance is stressful.

In a HS game, I do not call the neighborhood play: the sliding rules protect the fielder. No reason for the neighborhood play.

In MLB, I think that the current lack of a settled ruling on this play is unsustainable. Coaches and players will be rightly concerned about fielder safety if the decision is not to allow the neighborhood play any longer. Umpires are rightly concerned that the neighborhood play is a rules violation and looks like a bad call on super-slo-mo replay.

Something will have to be changed, and preferably changed publicly.

The problem in this play wasn't Aybar not touching the base -- the problem was he never got closer than 6 inches to the base and didn't move his feet. Had he swiped and pivoted and not stood still, I think Layne would've given the out.

Stand there in the middle and you're going to get drilled and why should we give you the call? He's not protecting himself if he stays right in there, is he?

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by mj

I'm not sure how you can say Layne was wrong. You can say you've seen more blatant examples getting this call. I would say those are wrong.

I like outs too but you've got get a heck of alot closer to the base than that.

its easy for him to say it.... He does like lazy looking umpires... I guess if you miss the bag but are close Steve will give you the call... Me you need to touch it..But then again Cali mostly Southern Cali does things different...LOL

wait this is just an opinion of mine, Im not trying to offend anyone, nor am I calling anyone any derogatory names.

[JR12]

I couldn't stay awake over here on the east coast, but I just found the video. It sounded from descriptions on here that he wasn't close to the bag, but he was. I think had he called the out a 2nd base, nobody says a word, but why didn't he just touch the base?

2009 ALCS: Game 2 | ALCS Gm 2: TV, radio calls on Halos' near double play - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

its easy for him to say it.... He does like lazy looking umpires... I guess if you miss the bag but are close Steve will give you the call... Me you need to touch it..But then again Cali mostly Southern Cali does things different...LOL

wait this is just an opinion of mine, Im not trying to offend anyone, nor am I calling anyone any derogatory names.

Wow, for someone who wasn't trying to offend anyone, or say anything derogatory, you sure did a good job of both. Please name a lazy looking umpire that I like.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Wow, for someone who wasn't trying to offend anyone, or say anything derogatory, you sure did a good job of both. Please name a lazy looking umpire that I like.

your best Friend Tim McCelland...LOL I know he is your favorite umpire...

[cookie]

It appears that Umpire Jerry Layne demands more from the fielder than some MLB umpires (most notably, Rich Guccione and his infamous high-throw, way-off-the-bag "neighborhood play" earlier in this summer).

McCarver was wrong to say that Layne had been giving the "neighborhood play" throughout the game , so "why change it now?", he asks. A review of all of three previous DP's by Aybar show him conscientiously touching the bag (or damn close). This one was just too blatant (or lazy on Aybar's part). Good call, Jerry Layne

[Chris_Hickman]

Who is Rich Guccione?

[cookie]

My mistake. His first name is Chris and he was appointed to the MLB umpire roster this year as part of Ed Montague's crew. He made that infamous (my opinion) neighborhood play call last August where the throw from F6 was high and F4 was way off the base, YET he called an "OUT". Truly ridiculous! - the epitomy of laziness and arrogance, the kind of stuff that had the public and MLB front office at odds with MLB umpires during the 90's (in addition to the "out of condition"-ness of many of them during that period). Here's a link to that play:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CHN@COL: Piniella ejected in the second inning - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

[Rich]

Originally Posted by cookie

My mistake. His first name is Chris and he was appointed to the MLB umpire roster this year as part of Ed Montague's crew. He made that infamous (my opinion) neighborhood play call last August where the throw from F6 was high and F4 was way off the base, YET he called an "OUT". Truly ridiculous! - the epitomy of laziness and arrogance, the kind of stuff that had the public and MLB front office at odds with MLB umpires during the 90's (in addition to the "out of condition"-ness of many of them during that period). Here's a link to that play:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CHN@COL: Piniella ejected in the second inning - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Oh, STFU already. He missed a call and it's a huge freaking stretch to equate a missed call with arrogance or laziness. Who really cares what the public thinks of the umpires, anyway? I'm sure the fans of the other team were thrilled to get the call.

Nobody really wants the right call, they want their team to get every call.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Really? I thought the point of the neighborhead play was not requiring a touch.

You touch the bag on the way to stepping toward your throw. You receive the ball while actually no longer in contact with the bag, and then make the throw in a continuous rhythm, giving the appearance of having been on the bag when the feed was caught. That's the neighborhood play, Mr. Umpire. Call the others whatever you want, but the neighborhood play is granted when you have left a bag you've touched at some point during the play.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You touch the bag on the way to stepping toward your throw. You receive the ball while actually no longer in contact with the bag, and then make the throw in a continuous rhythm, giving the appearance of having been on the bag when the feed was caught. That's the neighborhood play, Mr. Umpire. Call the others whatever you want, but the neighborhood play is granted when you have left a bag you've touched at some point during the play.

Interesting. My understanding has been similar to San Diego Steve's on this. But, having an open mind, I'll look into it to see if I've been mistaken for 30 years. Anything's possible.

[PeteBooth]

Rich here is the flip side.

Maybe in the not so distant future some high priced F6 / F4 is going to be lost for the season on a routine type play in which he is now "forced" to touch the base as opposed to "back in the day". R1 is going to come barreling into the bag and either F4/F6 lost for the season.

Guess what? Now the same people who were in favor of the call will now say
"What the heck is going on? The runner was out by a mile on a routine type play. why DO THE UMPIRES make F4/F6 touch the base when all is needed is to be in the "vicintiy" to avoid injury.

FWIW I now HATE replay even in Football. The replay rule was supposed to overturn OBVIOUS mistakes not replay every call a ZILLION times with different angles. Heck now-a-days you can go to the bathroom, get a drink and STILL a decision has not been rendered.

In a nutshell Replay along with "other things" has ruined the tradition of baseball.

You are correct though the NEIGHBORHOOD is dead at least in MLB and most likely division I college where games are shown on TV.

Pete Booth

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Rich here is the flip side.

Maybe in the not so distant future some high priced F6 / F4 is going to be lost for the season on a routine type play in which he is now "forced" to touch the base as opposed to "back in the day". R1 is going to come barreling into the bag and either F4/F6 lost for the season.

Guess what? Now the same people who were in favor of the call will now say
"What the heck is going on? The runner was out by a mile on a routine type play. why DO THE UMPIRES make F4/F6 touch the base when all is needed is to be in the "vicintiy" to avoid injury.

Pete Booth

Watch the replays. 99% of the time they do touch the base already.

The neighborhood play has beem dead for years in MLB.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Watch the replays. 99% of the time they do touch the base already.

The neighborhood play has beem dead for years in MLB.

This is a reponse I received from a former MLB umpire regarding KF's interpretation of the neighborhood play


Carl,

You're both right, kind of. The so-called "neighborhood"or "in the vicinity" play evolved during the time I called ball. Originally, it wasn't called either of those names. It wasn't called anything. It was basically the calling of an out when the fielder pulled off the bag early to get the hell out of the way of the runner's spikes.

In a short time, the fielders never touched the bag at all. They just came close to the the back side as they were turning the play. Close then became a matter of interpretation for some umpires, 2 inches, 4 inches 10 inches, a foot and a half. This is when the nick names came about as in "he was in the neighborhood."

I don't think I saw a fielder actually touch second on a double play once in my last five years.

I have noticed, however, that since the merger, the practice of giving that play to the fielder has diminshed. It will take some time and some more retirements, but I think it will be gone completely in a few years.

Edited to add:

From what I've seen. I don't think it will take a few years. Just my opinion.