The death of the neighborhood play...

[cookie]

It appears that Umpire Jerry Layne demands more from the fielder than some MLB umpires (most notably, Rich Guccione and his infamous high-throw, way-off-the-bag "neighborhood play" earlier in this summer).

McCarver was wrong to say that Layne had been giving the "neighborhood play" throughout the game , so "why change it now?", he asks. A review of all of three previous DP's by Aybar show him conscientiously touching the bag (or damn close). This one was just too blatant (or lazy on Aybar's part). Good call, Jerry Layne

[mj]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I thought the call was horsesh*t myself. If the throw doesn't pull the fielder off the base, he gets the neighborhood play. I've seen a lot more blatant examples of fielders getting the call than this. I think Layne was wrong.

I'm not sure how you can say Layne was wrong. You can say you've seen more blatant examples getting this call. I would say those are wrong.

I like outs too but you've got get a heck of alot closer to the base than that.

[mbyron]

The problem is that the neighborhood play is not dead. Some umpires still give it, some don't. The problem is that we're in transition, which means that players don't know how it will be called. Ignorance is stressful.

In a HS game, I do not call the neighborhood play: the sliding rules protect the fielder. No reason for the neighborhood play.

In MLB, I think that the current lack of a settled ruling on this play is unsustainable. Coaches and players will be rightly concerned about fielder safety if the decision is not to allow the neighborhood play any longer. Umpires are rightly concerned that the neighborhood play is a rules violation and looks like a bad call on super-slo-mo replay.

Something will have to be changed, and preferably changed publicly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The problem is that the neighborhood play is not dead. Some umpires still give it, some don't. The problem is that we're in transition, which means that players don't know how it will be called. Ignorance is stressful.

In a HS game, I do not call the neighborhood play: the sliding rules protect the fielder. No reason for the neighborhood play.

In MLB, I think that the current lack of a settled ruling on this play is unsustainable. Coaches and players will be rightly concerned about fielder safety if the decision is not to allow the neighborhood play any longer. Umpires are rightly concerned that the neighborhood play is a rules violation and looks like a bad call on super-slo-mo replay.

Something will have to be changed, and preferably changed publicly.

The problem in this play wasn't Aybar not touching the base -- the problem was he never got closer than 6 inches to the base and didn't move his feet. Had he swiped and pivoted and not stood still, I think Layne would've given the out.

Stand there in the middle and you're going to get drilled and why should we give you the call? He's not protecting himself if he stays right in there, is he?

[robbie]

Steve: I find it hard to believe you so strongly advocate making an incorrect call in the interest of some greater good.

I know this would never happen, but when I see these discussions, I think its so blatent that it woulkd be protestable. Its not a judgement call.

If protested, the ump would have to blatently lie in order for the protest to be overrulled.

Play it out.......
UIC (or appropriate person): What did you see?
Blue: I saw the runner straddle the base, but I felt that he was close enough to grant the out.
UIC: What rule are you applying?
Blue I cant think what he could possibly say)
Offended coach: The rule says..................
UIC: Case closed - Misapplication of rule - Protest upheld
UIC:

[kylejt]

This has been an accepted out for generations at the MLB level. He squared up on three side of the bag, if you watch the catch and release.

Personally, I hate that it's accepted, as it's trickled down to the lower levels of ball, and thrown us all under the bus for not calling it. Now someone has to ask "how close is close enough, if you're not actually going to require them to touch the bag?"

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by kylejt

This has been an accepted out for generations at the MLB level. He squared up on three side of the bag, if you watch the catch and release.

Personally, I hate that it's accepted, as it's trickled down to the lower levels of ball, and thrown us all under the bus for not calling it. Now someone has to ask "how close is close enough, if you're not actually going to require them to touch the bag?"

it WAS accepted IN THE PAST for generations.

It has NOT been accepted in recent years as replays proliferate.

As more and more emphasis is placed on "get it right" and requests for more instant replay increase you'll see less and less of the formerly acceptable calls of all types. And I think that's a good thing.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Touch the freaking base.

He could have touched the base and didn't. He did every other time that night. Just another one of the Angels' defensive mistakes this series.

I wouldn't say the neighborhood play is quite dead yet, but I have to think it's slowly on the way out.

McCarver's silence after Buck corrected him was golden.

[Chris_Hickman]

Who is Rich Guccione?

[cookie]

My mistake. His first name is Chris and he was appointed to the MLB umpire roster this year as part of Ed Montague's crew. He made that infamous (my opinion) neighborhood play call last August where the throw from F6 was high and F4 was way off the base, YET he called an "OUT". Truly ridiculous! - the epitomy of laziness and arrogance, the kind of stuff that had the public and MLB front office at odds with MLB umpires during the 90's (in addition to the "out of condition"-ness of many of them during that period). Here's a link to that play:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CHN@COL: Piniella ejected in the second inning - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

[Rich]

Originally Posted by cookie

My mistake. His first name is Chris and he was appointed to the MLB umpire roster this year as part of Ed Montague's crew. He made that infamous (my opinion) neighborhood play call last August where the throw from F6 was high and F4 was way off the base, YET he called an "OUT". Truly ridiculous! - the epitomy of laziness and arrogance, the kind of stuff that had the public and MLB front office at odds with MLB umpires during the 90's (in addition to the "out of condition"-ness of many of them during that period). Here's a link to that play:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CHN@COL: Piniella ejected in the second inning - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Oh, STFU already. He missed a call and it's a huge freaking stretch to equate a missed call with arrogance or laziness. Who really cares what the public thinks of the umpires, anyway? I'm sure the fans of the other team were thrilled to get the call.

Nobody really wants the right call, they want their team to get every call.

[johnnyg08]

It's a judgment call though...misapplication/interpretation wouldn't hold up.

Originally Posted by robbie

Steve: I find it hard to believe you so strongly advocate making an incorrect call in the interest of some greater good.

I know this would never happen, but when I see these discussions, I think its so blatent that it woulkd be protestable. Its not a judgement call.

If protested, the ump would have to blatently lie in order for the protest to be overrulled.

Play it out.......
UIC (or appropriate person): What did you see?
Blue: I saw the runner straddle the base, but I felt that he was close enough to grant the out.
UIC: What rule are you applying?
Blue I cant think what he could possibly say)
Offended coach: The rule says..................
UIC: Case closed - Misapplication of rule - Protest upheld
UIC:

[DG]

During pre-game show for tonight's game Cal Ripken said he does not believe in the neighborhood play, SS needs touch the bag. That is a player perspective and a SS who played quite a few games there. But it does seem true that some give it and some don't and I expect the presence of numerous replay cameras and a national audience are factors.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by mj

I'm not sure how you can say Layne was wrong. You can say you've seen more blatant examples getting this call. I would say those are wrong.

I like outs too but you've got get a heck of alot closer to the base than that.

its easy for him to say it.... He does like lazy looking umpires... I guess if you miss the bag but are close Steve will give you the call... Me you need to touch it..But then again Cali mostly Southern Cali does things different...LOL

wait this is just an opinion of mine, Im not trying to offend anyone, nor am I calling anyone any derogatory names.

[JR12]

I couldn't stay awake over here on the east coast, but I just found the video. It sounded from descriptions on here that he wasn't close to the bag, but he was. I think had he called the out a 2nd base, nobody says a word, but why didn't he just touch the base?

2009 ALCS: Game 2 | ALCS Gm 2: TV, radio calls on Halos' near double play - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia