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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 02:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire View Post
This is a reponse I received from a former MLB umpire regarding KF's interpretation of the neighborhood play


Carl,

You're both right, kind of. The so-called "neighborhood"or "in the vicinity" play evolved during the time I called ball. Originally, it wasn't called either of those names. It wasn't called anything. It was basically the calling of an out when the fielder pulled off the bag early to get the hell out of the way of the runner's spikes.

In a short time, the fielders never touched the bag at all. They just came close to the the back side as they were turning the play. Close then became a matter of interpretation for some umpires, 2 inches, 4 inches 10 inches, a foot and a half. This is when the nick names came about as in "he was in the neighborhood."

I don't think I saw a fielder actually touch second on a double play once in my last five years.

I have noticed, however, that since the merger, the practice of giving that play to the fielder has diminshed. It will take some time and some more retirements, but I think it will be gone completely in a few years.


Edited to add:

From what I've seen. I don't think it will take a few years. Just my opinion.
Great stuff!

I'd say that it's a pleasure for me to declare that we're both right.

Last edited by Kevin Finnerty; Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 04:17pm.
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 04:19pm
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And naturally, I'm old school as well. I guess it will take my retirement (again, as I have more lives than Bret Favre apparently) to get me to stop calling it. I make the player make the most of the play, and I thought that Aybar, by straddling the base, then pivoting to position his right leg on the backside of the base, had demonstrated enough "neighborhood." That's my opinion. I don't think I am "dead wrong" in any shape or form, just have a different, old school opinion.
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 07:35pm
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Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post
Maybe in the not so distant future some high priced F6 / F4 is going to be lost for the season on a routine type play in which he is now "forced" to touch the base as opposed to "back in the day". R1 is going to come barreling into the bag and either F4/F6 lost for the season.
There are exceptions of course, but I will take a good catcher over a good F6 or F4 any day, and yet we allow them to be crashed and possibly lost for the season, or a career. Safety is no reason to give the neighborhood call, they can touch and get out of the way. When was last time one was lost for the season over a routine play at 2B?
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 09:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
There are exceptions of course, but I will take a good catcher over a good F6 or F4 any day, and yet we allow them to be crashed and possibly lost for the season, or a career. Safety is no reason to give the neighborhood call, they can touch and get out of the way. When was last time one was lost for the season over a routine play at 2B?
A good take out slide doesn't really take the fielder out, it makes him get nothing on the ball to first because he's trying to get out of the way via jump, step back, etc. There is never a collision the way we see at the plate. F4/F6 job on the play is to 1) catch and transfer, sometime touching the base 2) Get the hell out of the way 3) give the throw to first. On the takeout slide, you can't do 3 without doing 2 first, hence, no injuries.

Far different from the play at plate, where F2's responsibilities are 1) Catch 2) Block 3) Brace/Tag (different orgs. may teach 1 and 2 vice versa to eliminate the steamroll before the ball ever gets there, or dekeing the runner into slowing up).
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 09:37pm
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FWIW, the worst replay system right now is NCAA DI football. Games are way too long w/ many unnecessary reviews.
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2009, 08:29am
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
There are exceptions of course, but I will take a good catcher over a good F6 or F4 any day, and yet we allow them to be crashed and possibly lost for the season, or a career. Safety is no reason to give the neighborhood call, they can touch and get out of the way. When was last time one was lost for the season over a routine play at 2B?
F2 has equipment F4/F6 have no equipment and are exposed.

Also, your comparison is not a good one. We are talking about ROUTINE plays not Bang bang plays.

When a runner comes crashing into F2 for the most part the play is close or F2 is blocking his path.

You cannot compare a play at the plate where F2 is blocking the runners path to a ROUTINE play at second base.

Pete Booth
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2009, 08:44am
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I am not replying to any post on this.

I saw the video posted of the play in question. That was not a neighborhood play. His feet were about 6 inches from the base during the whole play. Not even close to a neighborhood play.

I will give it in situations when I am not sure if he touched the base or not. Such as, F6 drags his foot behind 2B and is close to the base. How can you dispute if he touched or not? The base isn't going to move if he just clips it.

I'll give that or if one of his feet comes within just a few millimeters of the base. Again, hard to tell if he touched it or not at regular speed. But, Aybar's feet were never close to 2B and that is the right call. That is not a neighborhood play at all.

I don't believe the neighborhood play is dead by no means. I just think the umpires need to make the players work a little more than that to earn it. Be a little more deceptive than that. The nose bleed section could tell he didn't touch the base or even come close.

At least be in the neighborhood, to get the neighborhood call.
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2009, 10:06am
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... See!
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 20, 2009, 09:54pm
DG DG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post
F2 has equipment F4/F6 have no equipment and are exposed.

Also, your comparison is not a good one. We are talking about ROUTINE plays not Bang bang plays.

When a runner comes crashing into F2 for the most part the play is close or F2 is blocking his path.

You cannot compare a play at the plate where F2 is blocking the runners path to a ROUTINE play at second base.

Pete Booth
Of course I can. A routine play at second base does not require any "protection" for the fielders, they can move their feet and get out of the way. The "neighborhood" call is supposed to protect them from runners sliding at them with intent to break up double plays?

At the plate on bangers the catcher has very little chance to brace himself for the collision and the catcher's gear is little help against a 200+ lb runner at full speed crashing into him with malicious intent.

My point was the neighborhood call is supposed to "protect" middle infielders, who don't reallly need it if you compare the collisions they might indure to those at the plate, and MLB does not "protect" catchers.

Touch the bag or you don't get the call.
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Old Tue Oct 20, 2009, 10:19pm
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maybe we outta have a football style instant replay, each skipper gets two challenges a game, if he wins both, he gets one more, if he loses BOTH challenges, he gets ejected, if he gets ejected for anything else, his team loses any challenges remaining. no extra challenges allowed for extra innings. make for some more skipper strategy...
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Old Mon Nov 02, 2009, 09:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
...bottom of the 10th in the Yankees/Angels game.

Best part was hearing McCarver rail against the call and claim that Aybar never touched the base all night and then the production crew went back and proved McCarver wrong.

Aybar never came close to the bag, either.
Another "neighborhood" play in top of 3rd in game 5 of WS.....and they even referred to the Aybar play!
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Old Mon Nov 02, 2009, 10:18pm
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Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
Another "neighborhood" play in top of 3rd in game 5 of WS.....and they even referred to the Aybar play!
Neighborhood only in McCarver's eyes. The replay showed that Rollins brushed the bag with his left foot as he stepped back to throw.
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Old Mon Nov 02, 2009, 11:02pm
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It was actually Mr. November, not Rollins.
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Old Tue Nov 03, 2009, 09:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Neighborhood only in McCarver's eyes. The replay showed that Rollins brushed the bag with his left foot as he stepped back to throw.
The one last night was different from the Aybar play, but I wouldn't expect McCarver to remember that far back.

McCarver starts blathering on and on about some call, the replay shows it was fine, he has to say, "Oh, it looks like it was correct." Just another day at the office for him.
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