Earrings and a ponytail.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Yep. How is that any different from millions of others including many who later became famous chicken hawks?

Uh, none of them were elected president?

Sorry, I can't relate. I volunteered during the Vietnam War at the age of 17.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Holy sh!t. I just spilled my beer.


Don't tell Rush or anyone over at FOX. They've all be touting him as one of the few remaining TRUE conservatives.

Their party needs a leader that's not a radio host or former half-term governor. Failed vice-president is a big step up.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Sorry, I don't listen to talk radio very much these days. Nor do I sit around watching the news that just keeps getting better and better every day.

Give me sports, sports and more sports.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes, it could only be one or the other, but not both. In the context Clinton meant it, he was describing people who he identified strongly with.

It was both.

He never stated "I loathe the military," nor was he stating that the military was bad.

It was a lamentation of the situation of the era, one in which he felt that a proud institution was being used in an immoral or improper fashion. This is abundantly clear in the sentences following the "loathing" comment.

[JRutledge]

What in the heck does not wanting to go to war (a rather common feeling) and hating the military have to do with each other?

And I know some rather liberal people; I have never once heard someone suggest they hated the military. Maybe you do need to get out more often Steve.

Actually Steve there was a conservative religious group in Illinois that would go to military funerals from these current wars and would taunt the families and people attending the funeral. And their claim was those individuals deserved it because they military allowed gays in the military. A law had to be created by and Democratic Governor to create a buffer for protest at military funerals. Not sure where you get your information from.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What in the heck does not wanting to go to war (a rather common feeling) and hating the military have to do with each other?

And I know some rather liberal people; I have never once heard someone suggest they hated the military. Maybe you do need to get out more often Steve.

Actually Steve there was a conservative religious group in Illinois that would go to military funerals from these current wars and would taunt the families and people attending the funeral. And their claim was those individuals deserved it because they military allowed gays in the military. A law had to be created by and Democratic Governor to create a buffer for protest at military funerals. Not sure where you get your information from.

Peace

Oh, you don't know any liberals that hate the military? Maybe you need to get out more often. I'm not talking about rational, thoughtful, patriotic liberals. I know there are many. I'm talking about extremists, like the ones you are describing, only liberal extremists.

I already said that there were extremes on both sides and that both of those extremes are dangerous.

BTW, that "religious" group you speak of must have a California branch as well, because there have been reports of this happening about a year ago here at Fort Rosecrans National Cemetary.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Sorry, I don't listen to talk radio very much these days. Nor do I sit around watching the news that just keeps getting better and better every day.

Give me sports, sports and more sports.

Politics is a joke ... but only if it's taken seriously.

(I love that line.)

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually Steve there was a conservative religious group in Illinois that would go to military funerals from these current wars and would taunt the families and people attending the funeral. And their claim was those individuals deserved it because they military allowed gays in the military. A law had to be created by and Democratic Governor to create a buffer for protest at military funerals. Not sure where you get your information from.

Peace

THAT'S Fred Phelps.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that Fred Phelps! That's not a conservative, that is a nut job!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Oh, you don't know any liberals that hate the military? Maybe you need to get out more often. I'm not talking about rational, thoughtful, patriotic liberals. I know there are many. I'm talking about extremists, like the ones you are describing, only liberal extremists.

No I have never heard anyone say that hate the military other than the group I referenced. And I do not know if hate is the right word for their behavior. Just because you disagree with a policy or the leadership for a course of action, that does not mean you hate something. But for most conservatives that is hard to understand. Considering that anyone that opposed the war was considered unpatriotic and un-American.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I already said that there were extremes on both sides and that both of those extremes are dangerous.

BTW, that "religious" group you speak of must have a California branch as well, because there have been reports of this happening about a year ago here at Fort Rosecrans National Cemetary.

I am sure they were doing this all over the country. I just know that the current governor (he was the Lt. Gov at the time) spoke at an official's banquet and talked about passing this law. The law was passed a few months later. But that is the only group I know that openly talked about the military in a hateful way (at least recently). For you to say that most groups that feel that way are liberal is not only misleading, it is not true. I do not think the issues that people that blew up the Government building in Oklahoma City were liberal. Oh, you forgot that.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No I have never heard anyone say that hate the military other than the group I referenced. And I do not know if hate is the right word for their behavior. Just because you disagree with a policy or the leadership for a course of action, that does not mean you hate something. But for most conservatives that is hard to understand. Considering that anyone that opposed the war was considered unpatriotic and un-American.

Way over-simplified statement. I don't think people that are opposed to (what war?) are necessarily unpatriotic, but if they are called to war and don't go, they are very definitely chicken and don't deserve to live in this country, as millions have died to give them the freedom they are afraid to stand up for. Many died in Vietnam because of the anti-military efforts perpetrated on our own soil, by supposedly patriotic, red-blooded Americans who thwarted our military efforts, affected political decisions and swayed our military to back out of a war that WE WERE GOING TO WIN IF GIVEN THE CHANCE!

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For you to say that most groups that feel that way are liberal is not only misleading, it is not true. I do not think the issues that people that blew up the Government building in Oklahoma City were liberal. Oh, you forgot that.

Again, I'm talking about extremists, which Timoty McVeigh was. He was nota conservative or a liberal, he was a fruit cake extremist with an agenda that nowhere remotely resembles a conservative. Ultra right-wingers are as dangerous, if not more dangerous than the hate-spewing, God-hating ultra left-wingers.

You can disagree all you want, but I was in the military during Vietnam and know the score. I really didn't like getting nasty looks from all the peaceniks either, but oh well, I put up with it. All gave some. Some gave all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Way over-simplified statement. I don't think people that are opposed to (what war?) are necessarily unpatriotic, but if they are called to war and don't go, they are very definitely chicken and don't deserve to live in this country, as millions have died to give them the freedom they are afraid to stand up for. Many died in Vietnam because of the anti-military efforts perpetrated on our own soil, by supposedly patriotic, red-blooded Americans who thwarted our military efforts, affected political decisions and swayed our military to back out of a war that WE WERE GOING TO WIN IF GIVEN THE CHANCE!

If it is an over simplistic statement, it did not come from me. The past administration had several people publicly suggested the patriotism of those that opposed their policy for war. And I do not believe soldiers died in Vietnam because there were people here that opposed the war. Sorry, that is a very hollow argument. Unless there were citizens in Vietnam shooting or bombing our soldiers, that is not a very good claim.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Again, I'm talking about extremists, which Timoty McVeigh was. He was nota conservative or a liberal, he was a fruit cake extremist with an agenda that nowhere remotely resembles a conservative. Ultra right-wingers are as dangerous, if not more dangerous than the hate-spewing, God-hating ultra left-wingers.

You can disagree all you want, but I was in the military during Vietnam and know the score. I really didn't like getting nasty looks from all the peaceniks either, but oh well, I put up with it. All gave some. Some gave all.

You are right, his McVeigh's views were so not conservative, that his views were shared and expounded by people that claim to be conservative.

I get it, your claim is that only liberals are evil and anyone that is takes positions or sides with conservatism are not that way, they are just nut jobs.

Peace

[Kevin Finnerty]

Dick Cheney is indeed a conservative. And he was a draft dodger of the highest order. If being a hobo would get a deferment, he would be hopping trains the next day. He never even got far enough in the military to go AWOL.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Dick Cheney is indeed a conservative. And he was a draft dodger of the highest order. If being a hobo would get a deferment, he would be hopping trains the next day. He never even got far enough in the military to go AWOL.

Exactly. I love when conservatives throw out the anti-military crap about Democrats/liberals. It's pretty easy to just throw the Cheney thing right back at them. On top of that, a few years ago I saw a comparison of Democrat and Republican members of Congress. The Democrats made the Republicans look like Boy Scouts.

I find it funny how Cheney is lamented as not being a true conservative. That seems to happen quite a bit: Conservatives distance themselves from failed conservative leaders.

"Oh, that Bush and Cheney....they weren't conservatives!!" (Were they liberal? Because they sure weren't moderates)

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

That's not a conservative, that is a nut job!!!

And there's a difference?