Ball Four, in the dirt

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Ball four is in the dirt but caught cleanly by the catcher.

Not possible.

MLB is different from LL.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Not possible.

MLB is different from LL.

What I mean by "caught cleanly" is that it doesn't ricochet away. It just skips into the dirt and is caught. It's not a loose ball. Actually, even that is irrelevant. Even if the ball skips away from the catcher a few inches, I've seen they change baseballs before the batter is even halfway down the line.

I would think you would have to wait to change baseballs once the batter reaches 1st and is clearly making no attempt to advance. It's sort of analogous as to when a batter walks and the defensive manager wants to call time immediately to talk to his pitcher. He has to WAIT until the BR reaches first - then he can have time.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

What I mean by "caught cleanly" is that it doesn't ricochet away. It just skips into the dirt and is caught. It's not a loose ball. Actually, even that is irrelevant. Even if the ball skips away from the catcher a few inches, I've seen they change baseballs before the batter is even halfway down the line.

I would think you would have to wait to change baseballs once the batter reaches 1st and is clearly making no attempt to advance. It's sort of analogous as to when a batter walks and the defensive manager wants to call time immediately to talk to his pitcher. He has to WAIT until the BR reaches first - then he can have time.

Maybe in your games. I grant time immediately at the HS and college level or wherever kids can actually play.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Maybe in your games. I grant time immediately at the HS and college level or wherever kids can actually play.

No you don't! Because you don't have over 100 baseballs to work with.

And, if you do swap balls every time it touches the ground (especially in a HS game) - I'll bet you continue using that ball 99% of the time. At worst, you slip it into the bag just to reemerge one foul ball later. Hell, half the time you don't have more than three at time to work with after about dozen foul balls into the woods.

Unless it's wet, hits the backstop, or is noticeably discolored or damaged - in a HS game - keep using it, for crissakes.

You call "time" every time the ball touches the ground?

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

No you don't! Because you don't have over 100 baseballs to work with.

.......

You call "time" every time the ball touches the ground?

Apparently reading is a skill you haven't acquired. The man never said he changed balls every time the ball hit the dirt.

And, I believe he was commenting on calling time on a base on balls.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

No you don't! Because you don't have over 100 baseballs to work with.

And, if you do swap balls every time it touches the ground (especially in a HS game) - I'll bet you continue using that ball 99% of the time. At worst, you slip it into the bag just to reemerge one foul ball later. Hell, half the time you don't have more than three at time to work with after about dozen foul balls into the woods.

Unless it's wet, hits the backstop, or is noticeably discolored or damaged - in a HS game - keep using it, for crissakes.

You call "time" every time the ball touches the ground?

I mean I call time as soon as the defensive coach asks for time. I don't do the "wait until the batter gets to fir.....OK, TIME" nonsense.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

First of all, when did it become common practice in MLB to get a new baseball every time a ball touches the ground?

August 23, 1974, 5th inning

Ball four is in the dirt but caught cleanly by the catcher. The batter trots off to first base as the catcher hands the ball to the PU who exchanges it for a new ball.

Huh?

The ball is live and in play! We have a baserunner!

Everyone is relaxed at this point. It's not LL -- the chances of a baserunner (especially the BR) advancing here are less than .001%.

It's much the same as a coach requesting and being granted time to go out to the pitcher just after ball 4.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's much the same as a coach requesting and being granted time to go out to the pitcher just after ball 4.

I understand - but most managers understand that they can't walk out onto the field before the runner reaches first - nor will time be called until he does.

Are you saying you immediately kill the ball the moment the manager indicates that he wants to walk out onto the field and talk to his pitcher based on the low probability that the runner will advance or that the catcher's throw-back will be wild?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

I understand - but most managers understand that they can't walk out onto the field before the runner reaches first - nor will time be called until he does.

In MLB they can, and do (by accepted practice).

Are you saying you immediately kill the ball the moment the manager indicates that he wants to walk out onto the field and talk to his pitcher based on the low probability that the runner will advance or that the catcher's throw-back will be wild?

Yes, in all the games I do.

To be clear, "immediately" means that I take about a second to see if BR is running hard to first on the walk, or is just strolling down there. 99.5% of the time it's the latter, and I grant time before BR reaches first.

Let's try another analogy:

Runners are supposed to retouch their bases after a foul, and the umpire isn't supposed to put the ball in play until they do. Yet, almost all of us put the ball in play when both teams indicate (by their actions) that they are ready for play to resume -- the runner is "close enough" to the base so that neither team gains an advantage.

It's the same with the exchange of the ball (in MLB) and the granting of time -- both teams have indicated that they are prepared for play to stop, even though the literal rule does not allow play to stop yet.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In MLB they can, and do (by accepted practice).

I disagree that the managers walk out onto the field in a MLB game before the BR reaches first on a walk.

Unlike Little League and HS fields, it is such a long walk that, for that reason alone, it never happens. Plus, they tend to saunter out there so slowly - it is never seen.

Sure, they may come out of the dugout and start heading that way, but the batter has usually reached first by the time they get anywhere near the foul line. Plus, if you've ever noticed, most coaches do not even gesture to the PU for time until some time after they have emerged from the dugout.

I'm going to start watching more closely - but I don't think I've ever seen a manager cross the foul line before the BR has reached first in a MLB game.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

I disagree that the managers walk out onto the field in a MLB game before the BR reaches first on a walk.

Unlike Little League and HS fields, it is such a long walk that, for that reason alone, it never happens. Plus, they tend to saunter out there so slowly - it is never seen.

Sure, they may come out of the dugout and start heading that way, but the batter has usually reached first by the time they get anywhere near the foul line.

David watch again. I bet we could fill this Forum with CONCRETE examples of a manager heading to the mound way before B1 reaches first base. This is accepted practice at the major league level.

How many times have you watched Joe Torre motioning for the great Rivera when the previous F1 walked the batter. The batter no sooner tosses his bat down and out comes Torre motioning for MO and it's not just Torre.


Back in the day you had guys really doctoring the baseball like Gaylord Perry. Since MLB is a billion dollar industry, they can afford new baseballs. Also, look at the REAL picture. Whenever an outfielder makes a catch for the third out it's commonplace for him to simply toss the ball in the stands.

Same is true for the ball Boys/Girls on the first/ third base side. They also toss balls into the stands etc.

FWIW you cannot compare what is done or accepted in MLB to what we do. Heck I bet most of us umpired games where we only had 1 / 2 baseballs left (scuffed or not) and if they were lost we were down to the "real scraps" that's the world of amateur baseball NOT even close to MLB.

Pete Booth

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

I disagree that the managers walk out onto the field in a MLB game before the BR reaches first on a walk.

Wow. You disagree that something happens that in reality happens nearly every day in one MLB game or another.

This thread has now reached the absurd.