How to "Call" a ball not caught

[Tim C]

"I will never give the safe signal to signal I don't have obstruction or interference."

And there lies the problem. People here are giving you a valuable tool that is taught and used very widely. You take the path that you "know-it-all" and thats fine . . . I place you squarely in the cc6 camp.

[UmpTTS43]

I was taught that you use the terminology of "No catch" and "That's a catch" with the appropriate signals. I am not concerned about whether or not a runner misunderstands me, not my problem.

Here are some examples of the proper use of "that's nothing."

1) R1, R2. Ground ball to SS. R2 runs in front of SS briefly blocking view of SS on his way to 3rd. SS bobbles ball. Or the ball takes an irregular hop while bounding close to an advancing runner. Mechanic: Safe sign, "That's nothing"

2) Batter bunts ball in front of the plate. BR and F2 crash into each other while doing their jobs. PU judges no interference or obstruction. Mechanic: Safe sign, "That's nothing."

3) Batter swings at a outside pitch and leans part way over the plate. F2 catches pitch and tries to retire R1 stealing. PU judges no interfernce but it may look, from the dugouts, that interference occured. Mechanic: Safe sign, "That's nothing."

There are others, but you may get the idea. Giving these mechanics will not stop a coach from coming out, but you are telling everyone that you saw the play and have nothing.

[johnnyg08]

I don't disagree...but then I think it has to be an association mechanic so all of the officials are doing it. Otherwise, you get into trouble...like I did...while it's the right thing to do, if nobody else is doing it...we just look like Rambo out there.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I'm not talking about a "no catch" signal to show a ball wasn't caught. Everyone does that. We're talking about giving the "no catch" (safe) signal when you AREN'T going to call obstruction or interference.

It's arms out like safe or no catch, but it's used to indicate I-have-nothing when it's used on a possible obstruction/interference.

Standard here, too.

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I got into a bit of rhubarb this year too saying "no CATCH" I no longer use the word "catch" anymore...runner simply hear "Catch" and we get into trouble...it didn't affect the game, but my words did make a difference in that particular play. Now I either say nothing and signal or as somebody else stated..."No, No"

I don't say "That's a catch" or "No catch," I say "That's a CATCH"

or "NO catch."

I was originally taught to say "That's a catch," or "It's down."

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I don't disagree...but then I think it has to be an association mechanic so all of the officials are doing it. Otherwise, you get into trouble...like I did...while it's the right thing to do, if nobody else is doing it...we just look like Rambo out there.

Or you look like the most professionally trained and studious umpire in the association.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Or you look like the most professionally trained and studious umpire in the association.

Sometimes it's tough being on the island though...while I've been umpiring for 12 years...I'm one of the younger ones in our group...I've been earning some good spots in state tournaments etc...so people must be noticing...but it's hard to drive change when veterans are resistant. I've just tried to start with me and give advice to the new guys if they're willing to accept feedback. Offer thoughts when asked, otherwise I keep to myself and do my thing while always trying to learn and improve from watching others who are better than me.

[Kevin Finnerty]

So you are the most professionally trained and studious umpire in your association. And possibly possessing the best balance of pride and humility as well.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

ZM, just because you have never heard of it does not mean that it should not be done.

Of course you should make this signal if there is a situation like those discussed.

When did I say it should not be done? I just said that I don't do it. To each his own, just like wearing a cup on the bases.

I love how people on this board are so damn sensitive. (I'm not talking about you washburn) They think if you give an opinion on something, then by-god you are telling them what to do too. Lighten up.

Originally Posted by Tim C

And there lies the problem. People here are giving you a valuable tool that is taught and used very widely. You take the path that you "know-it-all" and thats fine . . . I place you squarely in the cc6 camp.

Again, I never said that I know it all. I simply said that I don't do it. You can place me wherever you want, but I find it funny that you judge people's umpiring proficiency based on a message board. I would be willing to bet that there are "respected" members of this board who are also sh*tty umpires as well.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

It's arms out like safe or no catch, but it's used to indicate I-have-nothing when it's used on a possible obstruction/interference.

I know what mechanic everyone is talking about. I was telling that person that I use it for "no catch" or "safe".

[JPaco54]

It seems there are many mechanics that umps use for different circumstances. Are there not standards for mechanics? I thought there were and I thought I was applying them but sometimes I get confused when I read differing opinions on this forum.
1. Interference - Both hands up and vocal - Dead Ball
2. Obstruction - delayed dead ball - Left arm extended horizontally fist closed.
3. Caught ball - Out Signal - Vocal OUT (confused now, do we vocal CATCH)?
4. Dropped ball - No Signal - No vocal (Confused now - do we vocal NO CATCH? and Signal Safe).

I am assuming we must use some judgement on close calls for Catch No Catch...but I also believe that different mechanics cause confusion with players and coaches...Do we use signals as we feel comfortable with?

I also am assuming that different assoications may have some preferred mechanics that they insist on. I thought this umpiring stuff was easy?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

It seems there are many mechanics that umps use for different circumstances. Are there not standards for mechanics? I thought there were and I thought I was applying them but sometimes I get confused when I read differing opinions on this forum.
1. Interference - Both hands up and vocal - Dead Ball
2. Obstruction - delayed dead ball - Left arm extended horizontally fist closed.
3. Caught ball - Out Signal - Vocal OUT (confused now, do we vocal CATCH)?
4. Dropped ball - No Signal - No vocal (Confused now - do we vocal NO CATCH? and Signal Safe).

I am assuming we must use some judgement on close calls for Catch No Catch...but I also believe that different mechanics cause confusion with players and coaches...Do we use signals as we feel comfortable with?

I also am assuming that different assoications may have some preferred mechanics that they insist on. I thought this umpiring stuff was easy?

This is how I do it:

1. Interference: signal Time + "Time. That's Interference!"
2. Obstruction - FED: DDB signal (left arm extended) + "That's Obstruction."
OBR Type A: signal Time + "Time. That's Obstruction. You, 2nd base!"
OBR Type B: Point at the obstruction + "That's Obstruction."
3. Caught ball - Very close: Out signal + "He's Out!"
Casual, can of corn (to partner): "That's a catch, Joe."
4. Dropped fly ball or close no catch: Safe signal + "No catch, no catch!"

[cc6]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Again, I never said that I know it all. I simply said that I don't do it. You can place me wherever you want, but I find it funny that you judge people's umpiring proficiency based on a message board. I would be willing to bet that there are "respected" members of this board who are also sh*tty umpires as well.

Ironically, I consider Tim_C to be the only person on here who knows umpiring inside-out. There are a lot of people posing as experts who don't know umpiring very well.

[johnnyg08]

I haven't read anybody self-proclaiming to be an expert...claiming to have experience...certainly.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by cc6

Ironically, I consider Tim_C to be the only person on here who knows umpiring inside-out. There are a lot of people posing as experts who don't know umpiring very well.

Name one.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

It seems there are many mechanics that umps use for different circumstances. Are there not standards for mechanics? I thought there were and I thought I was applying them but sometimes I get confused when I read differing opinions on this forum.
1. Interference - Both hands up and vocal - Dead Ball
2. Obstruction - delayed dead ball - Left arm extended horizontally fist closed.
3. Caught ball - Out Signal - Vocal OUT (confused now, do we vocal CATCH)?
4. Dropped ball - No Signal - No vocal (Confused now - do we vocal NO CATCH? and Signal Safe).

1) What if it's not an immediate dead ball? (that's a rhetorical question)

2) What if it is an immediate dead ball? (ditto) And, the left hand out is for FED only.

3) Nothing if it's routine (other than maybe letting your partner know). If it's below the knees, or over the shoulder, for example, then give the signal and the call

4) Nothing if it's obvious. Signal and call if it's not.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I will never give the safe signal to signal I don't have obstruction or interference.

So you will never adopt an appropriate, legitimate and helpful signal that is used at all levels and taught at proschool and PBUC;

Cool.

Teach what you want and do what you want, but I've never heard it from anyone in my area.

If that's your criteria, you need to move.

If I don't call it, it's pretty damn obvious that I don't think it's either of the two, so why would it be necessary to give a "safe" signal?

It lets everyone know you saw what ever happened and do not conisder it obstruction/interference, rather than leaving it to everyone's guess if you were paying attention. Preventive umpiring.

Is that taught at pro school?

Yes, but apparently that doesn't matter since pro school isn't in your area.

[johnnyg08]

I don't have an accounting school in my area...does that mean I can do my accounting however I please? You can, but you won't be considered a very good accountant. Apply the same logic to umpiring. Pro Schools, PBUC, professional interps are what we use as a standard for training...much of what they teach certainly applies to whatever level of baseball we're working.