How to "Call" a ball not caught

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Unless you have marbles in your mouth there shouldn't be any confusion.

They should be able to read a safe signal and the words "no catch" if done properly.

I did not say that there SHOULD be confusion. I said that sometimes there IS confusion. I speak extremely clearly and loudly on the field yet sometimes people have only heard the word catch. I think there is no reason to use two words when one gets the point across just as clearly (and possibly more clearly)

I know you were attempting to insult me but, I won't bother with that. You still think that Aerosmith is cool and that is sad.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Same here. I quit using the word 'catch' a few years ago because it sometimes caused confusion. I do not think I have anyone confused by a big safe sign and "NO!"

I got into a bit of rhubarb this year too saying "no CATCH" I no longer use the word "catch" anymore...runner simply hear "Catch" and we get into trouble...it didn't affect the game, but my words did make a difference in that particular play. Now I either say nothing and signal or as somebody else stated..."No, No"

[DG]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I guess I am confused:

Why didn't you give a safe sign and voice, "No Catch."

Maybe others here will correct me.

Not me. I believe I would have.

[PeteBooth]

TEE I agree however, IMO the more interesting question is this.

Let's "go with the OP" R1/R2 less then 2 outs and the ball hit to F6 as in the OP.

You are the PU

Your partner as in this OP says NOTHING. You are:

1. CERTAIN the ball was one hopped. - Do you "chime in" and say No catch? or remain silent?

2. You are UNCERTAIN if the ball was one hopped or not BUT your PARTNER says nothing. Do you say "No catch" figuring if it was a catch your partner would have said so.

In Summary: What should the PU do in this OP if his partner is NOT signalling or saying ANYTHING.

Pete Booth

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

TEE I agree however, IMO the more interesting question is this.

Let's "go with the OP" R1/R2 less then 2 outs and the ball hit to F6 as in the OP.

You are the PU

Your partner as in this OP says NOTHING. You are:

1. CERTAIN the ball was one hopped. - Do you "chime in" and say No catch? or remain silent?

2. You are UNCERTAIN if the ball was one hopped or not BUT your PARTNER says nothing. Do you say "No catch" figuring if it was a catch your partner would have said so.

In Summary: What should the PU do in this OP if his partner is NOT signalling or saying ANYTHING.

Pete Booth

If it becomes apparent my partner is not going to make a call (a couple of seconds), I will come up with the call, but I can appreciate an argument for keeping my mouth shut on #2.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

TEE I agree however, IMO the more interesting question is this.

...

You are the PU

Your partner as in this OP says NOTHING. You are:

...

2. You are UNCERTAIN if the ball was one hopped or not BUT your PARTNER says nothing. Do you say "No catch" figuring if it was a catch your partner would have said so.

In Summary: What should the PU do in this OP if his partner is NOT signalling or saying ANYTHING.

Pete Booth

Pete,

Interestingly, I had this happen this past Sunday during a HS fall ball game.

Only differences were the ball was hit to F4 and the play started with an R2 & R3.

I honestly couldn't tell whether the F4 "trapped" or "caught" the ball.

My partner had a good look at the play and signalled -NOTHING. I was a bit taken aback. I wondered if he thought this was my call.

As I was debating with myself whether to "poach" the call, the F4 threw to F6 at 2B (both runners had taken off on contact) and my partner then ruled "SAFE!", leading me to conclude he had judged "No Catch".

The F6 then threw home where the catcher tagged out the R3 attempting to score. Action relaxed with the BR at 1B and the R2 on 3B.

Oddly, neither coach came out to discuss the play with either me or my partner.

A half inning later, I gave my partner the "let's talk" signal. I verified that he thought it was his call to make (he thought so too) and suggested that it might be better to come up with a decisive "No Catch" mechanic should a similar play occur in the future. He agreed that would be a good idea.

So, what I did when this happened was - NOTHING. A very uncomfortable couple of seconds from my perspective, and I can't believe we didn't have a bit of a "discussion" about it with a coach.

JM

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Pete,

Interestingly, I had this happen this past Sunday during a HS fall ball game.

Only differences were the ball was hit to F4 and the play started with an R2 & R3.

I honestly couldn't tell whether the F4 "trapped" or "caught" the ball.

My partner had a good look at the play and signalled -NOTHING. I was a bit taken aback. I wondered if he thought this was my call.

As I was debating with myself whether to "poach" the call, the F4 threw to F6 at 2B (both runners had taken off on contact) and my partner then ruled "SAFE!", leading me to conclude he had judged "No Catch".

The F6 then threw home where the catcher tagged out the R3 attempting to score. Action relaxed with the BR at 1B and the R2 on 3B.

Oddly, neither coach came out to discuss the play with either me or my partner.

A half inning later, I gave my partner the "let's talk" signal. I verified that he thought it was his call to make (he thought so too) and suggested that it might be better to come up with a decisive "No Catch" mechanic should a similar play occur in the future. He agreed that would be a good idea.

So, what I did when this happened was - NOTHING. A very uncomfortable couple of seconds from my perspective, and I can't believe we didn't have a bit of a "discussion" about it with a coach.

JM

Nice piece of umpiring JM, don't know if I could have bit my tongue. I guess depends on the impression a new partner would give. Did 'pard seem to have a clue otherwise. If he had sneakers, combo pants, and a strap hat would you have made a call?

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I guess I am confused:

Why didn't you give a safe sign and voice, "No Catch."

Maybe others here will correct me.

Absolutely the correct mechanic, in my opinion. The runners (and fielders) need to know what happened - especially when it's not obvious.

While we're at it, there are 7 (that I can think of) uses of the "safe sign."

1. The most obvious, the runner is safe because he beat the tag or beat the throw. This is the one with which we are most familiar. It's the signal we make when the BR beats the throws to 1st or when the stealing R1 beats the catcher's throw at 2nd.

2. The batter did not swing. This is the signal the BU gives when asked, "Did he go?"

3. No catch! Used whenever there is any question as to whether the ball was caught while still in flight. This should be used on all shoestring catches, or, when the fielder seemingly catches the ball but it jars loose because of a collision with another fielder or wall/railing.

4. No tag on a swipe. This can occur anywhere! Let's say there is a grounder hit to F4 with R1. After fielding the ball, F4 makes a lunge/swipe toward the passing runner. Did he get him or not? You have to let them know at that very moment because subsequent play depends on the result. You can't just remain silent and signal nothing. Well, you can, but it would be poor technique.

5. A batted ball did not hit the runner. Oftentimes you'll see a runner leap over a sharply hit grounder, or, maybe the ball passed in very close proximity to the runner. There may be some question as to whether the ball hit him or not. If it did not hit him, a very wise signal would be to quickly give the safe signal. That way everybody will know that you were completely aware of what almost happened but it didn't happen. This signal will often preempt some disputes.

6. That's not obstruction/interference. Or, that's nothing. Sometimes a runner and fielder will make contact and it is neither obstruction nor interference. If you determine that it is nothing it would be wise to quickly give the safe signal to indicate, "Yeah, I saw it, too. It's nothing. Keep playing."

7. There is no fan interference. This is very common in MLB parks where fans reach over the railing and try to grab a live ball. A flurry of hands reach out for that ball ringing around in the corner. Did somebody touch it? If not, the umpire oftentimes gives the safe signal to indicate that the ball was not touched and is still live. This can happen during a high school game where it is not uncommon for a bunch of students/fans to congregate along the outfield fence. A ball is hit into the gap and bounces off the wall amidst a bunch of outstretched hands. If nobody touched it - give the safe signal to indicate that 1) you saw it 2) nobody touched and 3) the ball is still live.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Shmuelg

I had this problem last night:

The ball hits the ground briefly (for a millisecond), and then goes into the SS's glove. No question in my mind, but it was a question in the mind of many of the fielders and runners.

Why do you have to explain how long it hit the ground are you trying to convince us that maybe it just could of not, hit the ground. Is there a chance that everyone except you saw it differently. Not trying to be a wise guy here, I have just found that some people tend to explain things with a little more detail, when they are trying to convince others of what they saw.

Besides that, I agree with the crowd here, verbalize "no catch" and take the worry out of being close.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Shmuelg

Batter hits a line drive to the shortstop. The ball hits the ground briefly (for a millisecond), and then goes into the SS's glove. No question in my mind, but it was a question in the mind of many of the fielders and runners.

I didn't call anything, but I don't know what I should have done?

Different scenario

Instead of the ball being hit to F6 the ball was a sinking liner hit to F8 who dives to make the catch.

What should you do?

Answer:

the same as you would in your scenario - indicate a catch / no catch ONCE you process the infomation. In your case you said no doubt in my mind that it was a no catch. At that point you should have said No catch for EVERYONE to hear.

Pete Booth