Catch/Appeal

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

Since the initial attempt to retire the runner at first after the catch is an appeal and the fielder erred (ie threw the ball into dead ball territory) no further appeal is allowed on the runner at first base in the OP. I think this is the case in all three codes; if not, have at it.

Two things:

1) An "err" on a continuous action appeal doesn't negate the right to further appeals after the ball again becomes live. An "err" on a "relaxed action" appeal does negate that right.

2) In FED, the defense can continue to appeal eve if they throw the ball out of play on the first (relaxed action) appeal.

[tcarilli]

What is the reference for that (ie relaxed vs. not relaxed).

What is the difference between a retouch and a "leaving early." We aren't including 2nd base in any of this, yes? If so, leave it out. I am only concerned with the retouch of first.

[johnnyg08]

I think relaxed vs not relaxed is J/R terminology.

The difference between retouch and "leaving early" is I think two different terms. Retouch = "Tag up" and Leaving Early is leaving early...the point of this thread is that even if the ball is thrown out of play or into DBT (dead ball territory) on a caught fly ball, even though there is a base award the runner is still obiligated to "tag up" prior to his base award and if he advances to and touches 3B if he started on 1B, he loses the right to retouch 1B and may be called out on appeal. (that's my understanding anyway.) for OBR rules.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I think relaxed vs not relaxed is J/R terminology.

The difference between retouch and "leaving early" is I think two different terms. Retouch = "Tag up" and Leaving Early is leaving early...the point of this thread is that even if the ball is thrown out of play or into DBT (dead ball territory) on a caught fly ball, even though there is a base award the runner is still obiligated to "tag up" prior to his base award and if he advances to and touches 3B if he started on 1B, he loses the right to retouch 1B and may be called out on appeal. (that's my understanding anyway.) for OBR rules.

Yes it is Jaksa/Roder, but that is not the way I understand the context. One does not need to retouch (absent a foul ball) unless the ball is caught and the runner has left early.

Yes I understand that he is obligated to retouch first on the award, but he has to retouch because he left early, that is why the defense is appealing in the first place.

[johnnyg08]

I agree with your post tcarilli.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

What is the reference for that (ie relaxed vs. not relaxed).

It's in many of the reference material. Here's one:

PBUC 2009 Updates, 3.4J (it's essentially the same play as being discussed here, ecxcept F5 throws the ball out of play attempting to "double up" R1); Doesn't the act of the third baseman throwing the ball out of play nullify a succeeding appeal attempt? That is, hasn't the defense erred on its first attempt to appeal? rULING: nO. thE WILD THROW BY THE THIRD BASEMAN IS PART OF THE CONTINUOUS ACTION CREATED BY THE BATTER HITTING THE BALL ABD DOES NBOT NULLIFY A SUBSEQUENT APPEAL AFTER THE CONTINUOUS ACTION HAS ENDED.

(Apolgies for the caps)