Gameplay Situation I need a ruling on

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Briefly, I am of the opinion, that once the third out has been recorded, the BR no longer has the responsibility to touch 1st base.

I agree with your opinion if no runners have scored during the play. I will disagree if a runner has scored where the BR was retired for the third out. By rule, if the BR did not reach 1B safely where he would be the third out, no runner can score.

In the OP, Fivesdadda is asking if R3 could score if R3 crossed the plate prior to R2 being tagged out for the third out. If 1B was open and the BR never safely attained 1B, R3's run would not count even though R3 crossed HP prior to R2 being tagged.

[alex7]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

By rule, if the BR did not reach 1B safely where he would be the third out, no runner can score.

In the OP, Fivesdadda is asking if R3 could score if R3 crossed the plate prior to R2 being tagged out for the third out. If 1B was open and the BR never safely attained 1B, R3's run would not count even though R3 crossed HP prior to R2 being tagged.

I think the rule is no run can score IF the BR is put out before reaching first, not if he doesn't reach first safely. Two different things it seems, and importantly so.

Other posters have shown that not touching first on the OP play is not appealable, so I don't see how you wouldn't count the run nopachunts. Whether he touches first or not is irrelevant on the non-force 3rd out of R2, and the defense can't appeal the BR not touching first. Thus, score the run.

[bob jenkins]

This play has been around since Al Gore invented the interwebs:

R2, R3, two outs. B5 grounds to F6. As B5 runs toward first, he stumbles, breaks his ankle and lies writhing in pain on the ground. The following happens in order: R3 touches the plate. F6 throws the ball to F5 who tags R2 (three outs). F5 throws to F3 who steps on first (4 outs?).

Does the run count?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

This play has been around since Al Gore invented the interwebs:

R2, R3, two outs. B5 grounds to F6. As B5 runs toward first, he stumbles, breaks his ankle and lies writhing in pain on the ground. The following happens in order: R3 touches the plate. F6 throws the ball to F5 who tags R2 (three outs). F5 throws to F3 who steps on first (4 outs?).

Does the run count?

Day game or night game?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Day game or night game?

Later afternoon game that ends in the evening.

[johnnyg08]

Directly from the MLBUM page 42 in relation to rule 4.09 OBR:

1. No run shall score during a play in which the third out is made by the batter-runner before he touches first base.
2. No run shall score during a play in which the third out is a force out.
3. Following runners are not affected by an act of a preceeding runner unless two are out.

It doesn't really talk about the advantageous 4th out appeal here. I think they would have to execute the 4th out appeal in order to nullify the run based on #1.

[johnnyg08]

From OBR rule 7.10, page 74:

Appeal plays may require an umpire to recognize an apparent "fourth out"." If the third out is made during a play in which an appeal play is sustained on another runner, the appeal play decision takes precedence in determining the out. If there is more than one appeal during a play that ends a half-inning, the defense may elect to take the out that gives it the advantage. For the purpose of this rule, the defensive team has "left the field" when the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory on their way to the bench or clubhouse.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

This play has been around since Al Gore invented the interwebs:

R2, R3, two outs. B5 grounds to F6. As B5 runs toward first, he stumbles, breaks his ankle and lies writhing in pain on the ground. The following happens in order: R3 touches the plate. F6 throws the ball to F5 who tags R2 (three outs). F5 throws to F3 who steps on first (4 outs?).

Does the run count?

no run?