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Tue Aug 12, 2003, 01:44pm
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In a game last night, there was a runner on second and 1 out. The batter hit a single to left and the runner on second tried to score. The batters bat was on the ground in foul territory. As the play was made at home, the throw hit the bat and the closest runner was ruled out for obstruction(the runner trying to score)
Any feedback is welcome. Jim 
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Tue Aug 12, 2003, 02:28pm
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Bad call. A discarded bat is part of the field. Throw hits it, that's just too bad. I've seen it many times over the years.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Tue Aug 12, 2003, 02:31pm
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That was not the correct call. The correct call was live ball, play on.
ASA POE 17 says, Quote:
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Tom
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Tue Aug 12, 2003, 02:37pm
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need help on a ruling
Thank you- I know that my response to the umpire was not the most mature however when I asked him if I had no play and I chose to aim all subsequent throws at the discarded bat in order to get the out, I was ejected. In any case, we won and I appologized later even though I disagreed with the call.
Great site Jim
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Tue Aug 12, 2003, 02:37pm
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One tipoff that the ump might never have read the rule book is that he called the runner out for obstruction.
Some umps assume that if something unfortunate happens, there must be a rule somewhere that makes things "right." Incidentally, if all you did was pose that question to the ump, and if you didn't yell/scream/curse/make obscene gestures/etc., you should not have been ejected. [Edited by greymule on Aug 12th, 2003 at 02:39 PM]
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Tue Aug 12, 2003, 03:34pm
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I agree, wrong call. I can only assume the umpire felt the bat was discarded in a location designed to have a later effect on play. In the situation you described, can't imagine how that could be the case.
Had there been an earlier issue in the game, or recently in your area, of bats being dropped to conveniently impair the catcher, or something like that? That said, I hope any such problems are handled in a more straight-forward manner.
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Panda Bear
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Tue Aug 12, 2003, 04:31pm
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The bat is part of the ground. I had many coaches tell me I "have" to move a bat for many reasons (safety, etc). This is what my ASA commissioner told me at a State meeting: "Leave the damn bats alone!"
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"Softball games are like church: many attend - few understand"
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Tue Aug 12, 2003, 05:29pm
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Quote:
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Tue Aug 12, 2003, 07:18pm
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Quote:
the grounds keeper....[i.e. coaches always wanting a batter's box drawn....NO NO..] glen
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Wed Aug 13, 2003, 08:19am
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Regarding some of the latest posts in this thread, are you saying that as PU's we should never move a bat during a play? When possible and when it does not affect me getting into position to see/make calls, I have been moving it out of the way of possible baserunners coming home. So are you saying that it's better to avoid a possible lawsuit against me by not touching the bat at all, and leaving it wherever it is, even if it's right next to home plate and the runner may slide into it, trip over it, etc.? I've never thought about it that way. I've always thought about getting the bat out of the way for a possible play.
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Wed Aug 13, 2003, 08:39am
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Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by TruBlu The bat is part of the ground. I had many coaches tell me I "have" to move a bat for many reasons (safety, etc). This is what my ASA commissioner told me at a State meeting: "Leave the damn bats alone!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He's right. You are not the bat boy just as you are not the grounds keeper....[i.e. coaches always wanting a batter's box drawn....NO NO..] glen Skahtboi quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by TruBlu The bat is part of the ground. I had many coaches tell me I "have" to move a bat for many reasons (safety, etc). This is what my ASA commissioner told me at a State meeting: "Leave the damn bats alone!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You move the bat and someone falls over it and hurts themselves, you will be on the recieving end of a lawsuit. Darn right, leave the bat and all other equipment alone! TruBlu The bat is part of the ground. I had many coaches tell me I "have" to move a bat for many reasons (safety, etc). This is what my ASA commissioner told me at a State meeting: "Leave the damn bats alone!"
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
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Wed Aug 13, 2003, 09:35am
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Hey, Cecil... I think I finally got it... leave the damn bats alone!
 On a contrary note, however, I think we live in too much fear and trembling  regarding lawsuits.  I may kick a bat back, but it would be more to get it out of MY way than to get it out of the play. You can sue for just about anything. That doesn't mean you will win. I can't imagine a real jury awarding damages because an umpire moved a bat (barring something really unusual, such as carelessly throwing the bat directly into a player's face). We may as well also worry about showing favortism - after all, if we move the bat out of the way, we are ptoentially affecting the PLAY, aren't we? 
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Tom
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Wed Aug 13, 2003, 12:09pm
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I agree leave the bat alone, that's what the ondeck batter should take care of. I instruct all of our umpires during clinics to leave the equipment alone and just call the game, that's what you are being paid to do.
Now to the question. In USSSA slo-pitch only the batters bat discarted in fair territory is considered part of the playing field, otherwise it is foreign and a dead ball. As is in most organizations rules the player being played on is out if in your judgement you had a chance to make a play (out), if not you send them back to base they had legally attained when the ball was declared dead.
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