HELP WITH A RULING

[jason181988]

Here's the play. R1 is heading to 2nd base. F1 is the shortstop waiting for the throw at 2nd from right field. F1 is NOT straddling the base, but standing about 1-2 feet towards 1st base. He does NOT have the ball yet. R1 slides in and there is contact (no malicious contact). The field umpire ruled obstruction on F1 for blocking the base without the ball and awarded R1 3rd on the play. What is the correct ruling on this??

[mbyron]

It depends on the rule code. Under OBR if you rule obstruction here, then protect the batter only to 2B (assuming he would not likely have advanced to 3B). Under FED, I believe you must award an extra base to the obstructed runner. Don't know about NCAA, sorry.

[cbfoulds]

1.) Not enough info to say if the OBS call was correct:
*What level/ rule set for this game?
*Where was the ball?
*Did F "need" to be where he was to field the throw?
*Steal or force play?
*Was the slide directly into the base?
*What was the nature/ extent of the "contact"?

Presuming the OBS call was correct, the award is correct IF [in umpire judgment] R1 would have made 3rd in the absence of the OBS.

Ordinarily, I'd have some difficulty agreeing that an award of 3d was correct with R1 sliding into 2d; esp. if the ball was in flight toward the infield.

[DG]

Originally posted by mbyron
It depends on the rule code. Under OBR if you rule obstruction here, then protect the batter only to 2B (assuming he would not likely have advanced to 3B). Under FED, I believe you must award an extra base to the obstructed runner. Don't know about NCAA, sorry.

Same ruling in FED, if you determine he would not have reached 3B. He is advancing to 2B, give him 2B. The difference between FED and OBR is that in FED an obstructed runner is always awarded the base beyond which he has already acquired, in this case 2B.

[jason181988]

cbfoulds:

This was a Pony league game (13-14 yr old)

Ball was being thrown from RF to 2B, throw was in the air when slide was made.

Not sure if he needed to be there, I was not the field ump

This was a hit, R1 was going for a double

The slide was directly intot he base

R1 slide into F1, causing F1 to fall on top of R1, so it was a hard, but legal, slide. No high spikes or anything.

[largeone59]

I believe if you position yourself up the baseline to wait for the throw (before the throw was made), then you most likely have obstruction....

If you did have obstruction, the umpire made the wrong base award. From what i can infer from your play, sounds like he would be awarded 2nd.

[DG]

The question asked was not whether it was obstruction, the BU ruled obstruction. The question was whether runner was awarded 2B or 3B. In this case it would be difficult to award 3B, on the assumption that the obstruction prevented the runner from reaching 3B. He was sliding into 2B, and even if the ball was still in the RF's hand it is not reasonable to expect the runner to make it to 3B. In FED a fake tag is obstruction, but even if F1 was faking a tag to get him to slide, it is still a stretch to award 3B. By the way, I am assuming F1 was really F6 because SS was mentioned, and I can't figure out why F1 would be covering 2B on a ball hit to RF.

[Edited by DG on May 1st, 2005 at 11:03 PM]

[akalsey]

I use this as a rule of thumb for a fielder's position in the base path as a runner and a throw comes in...

Was the fielder there because the throw was there (nothing)

OR

Was the throw there because the fielder was there (obstruction)

In other words, if the fielder set up in the base path and that's why the throw was there, it's usually obstruction. If the fielder had to step into the base path to catch the throw, it's usually not.

[DG]

Originally posted by akalsey
I use this as a rule of thumb for a fielder's position in the base path as a runner and a throw comes in...

Was the fielder there because the throw was there (nothing)

OR

Was the throw there because the fielder was there (obstruction)

In other words, if the fielder set up in the base path and that's why the throw was there, it's usually obstruction. If the fielder had to step into the base path to catch the throw, it's usually not.

What is your rule of thumb for the award, assuming the BU ruled obstruction, which he did. The original question was whether to award 2B or 3B.

[GarthB]

Have we come to an agreement that this is Type A obstruction? The ball was in the air to the fielder at second, a play was being made on the runner. Am I reading this correctly so far?

7.06 When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal “Obstruction.”

(a)if a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batter-runner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire’s judgment, if there had been no obstruction. The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction. Any preceding runners, forced to advance by the award of bases as the penalty for obstruction, shall advance without liability to be put out.

Sounds like second base to me.

[jicecone]

Wait a minute here.

Unless Pony League has some special rules about this, the fielder was in the act of receiving the ball, if it was in the air as R1 was sliding.

HTBT is most likely the scenario however, the most R1 is getting is 2b. Even if it was obstruction????????????

[akalsey]

What is your rule of thumb for the award, assuming the BU ruled obstruction, which he did. The original question was whether to award 2B or 3B.

Yes, that was the original question, but CB asked some questions that started a bit of a side conversation about whether obsctruction should have been called.

To answer the original question, in Type A obstruction, it's going to be hard for me to award an extra base. If a play is being made on the runner (obstruction or not), the runner isn't likely going to make an extra base.

If R1 is being played on at second, he isn't going to have a chance to head to third unless there's an error. So he gets second on the OBS.

[jason181988]

First off, sorry I confused a few people by using F1, I should have said F6. My bad.

So we have come to an agreement, a fielder can be in the basepath IF AWAITING a throw that requires him to be there? But if he's there and does not need to be it is obstruction. Either way, the runner should have only been awarded second base, because even without obstruction (which afterall didn't happen in the first place), he would not have reached third.

Thanks for the help guys.