Marty Foster's call at 3rd base today

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Thanks for weighing in in a timely fashion. Takin' a stand, gotta love it! Like Jim Morrisson, you took a look around, see which way the wind blows.

feet first = fielder could get hurt

head first = runner could get hurt

a lot of potential for getting hurt leaving the glove down. Jeter could have jammed a finger on F5's glove. I've seen it happen.

Uh, no, the first time I tried to watch the play, it didn't work. I went on with my life, and then, today, I did see the play and it was a glaring example of one of those instances with conditions that do not add up to an automatic call. One of those conditions was the headfirst slide, which is both more likely to produce a deceptive movement at the end of the slide, and less likely to injure the fielder if he stays in there (the only legitimate reason for the automatic out call in the first place).

The guy blew the call and blathered about it (idiotic!) and ejected the manager. That was a bad minute of time in that guy's umpiring career.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by insatty

Perception is reality. Jeter was out.

I'm going to change the way I umpire. And when a guy is safe, even though the throw appeared to have beaten him, even though 90 percent of the time the throw beats him, he's out, but I see that he's safe like Jeter was, I'm going to call him out anyway. And when he jumps up and disputes the missed call, I'm going to say, "See all those people over there? Well, from over there, a play like yours is generally perceived as an out ... so I called you out."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I'm going to change the way I umpire. And when a guy is safe, even though the throw appeared to have beaten him, even though 90 percent of the time the throw beats him, he's out, but I see that he's safe like Jeter was, I'm going to call him out anyway. And when he jumps up and disputes the missed call, I'm going to say, "See all those people over there? Well, from over there, a play like yours is generally perceived as an out ... so I called you out."

But that's the problem...you shouldn't explain your call. Foster shouldn't have explained his call. He could have said, "Shut up, you get the same call on defense," and that would have been it.

I don't care if the runner slides head first, feet first, or as$ first, he's out if the tag has been waiting on the ground for him. In any other case, if he slides around the tag, he's safe. Not if the ball has been waiting for his arrival. That's a different situation than a daring, exciting hook slide on a close play.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

But that's the problem...you shouldn't explain your call. Foster shouldn't have explained his call. He could have said, "Shut up, you get the same call on defense," and that would have been it.

I don't care if the runner slides head first, feet first, or as$ first, he's out if the tag has been waiting on the ground for him. In any other case, if he slides around the tag, he's safe. Not if the ball has been waiting for his arrival. That's a different situation than a daring, exciting hook slide on a close play.

I was working a 18-U wood bat summer Nationals game. I'm on the plate with a Kenny Lofton type guy as R1, and there's a sinking liner to right that drops. I fly to third, because I read that Lofton's coming (he read the liner early and took off). The right fielder throws a beam to third a little on the infield side. The third baseman catches the throw and lays the tag down on the inside corner of the bag 12 feet before R1 arrived. R1 does a headfirst slide, and just as he arrives, he shoots his right hand out toward the outside corner of the bag and the tag missed him from the angle that I busted my a$$ to get. SAFE!

I don't have the ability to make a one-man-game style call when I'm right on top of something. And when you're right on it and you have the angle, it matters a whole lot less what the perception is.

Marty Foster makes calls his way; I try to get it right based on anticipation, hustle, proper choice of angle, a steady set, a clear look, and a fair judgment. If I do it that way, I can do it the same way 100 percent of the time and be correct with my call a higher percentage of the time than the Marty Fosters of the world.

[SanDiegoSteve]

F5 should have dropped his knee in front of the base. Different type of play. F5 had plenty of time to block that bag. Once it was clear that the runner wasn't just going to give himself up, screw being nice...knock the runner out with the tag.

In Jeter's case, F5 was just being courteous to Jeter. Next time, maybe not so.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Playing the game properly is another subject.

If I am the third baseman and the guy slides headfirst, we have an out and an ailing baserunner.

The old knee-in-the-face trick.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Playing the game properly is another subject.

If I am the third baseman and the guy slides headfirst, we have an out and an ailing baserunner.

The old knee-in-the-face trick.

Only if it's someone like Jeter should he drop the knee. Jeter was out because the umpire called him out. I agree with SDS that the umpire shouldn't have explained the call.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I think virtually everyone here agrees that his explaining (lamely excusing) his call was sheer idiocy.

Terrible call; terrible excuse; terrible job engaging the player.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I think virtually everyone here agrees that his explaining (lamely excusing) his call was sheer idiocy.

Terrible call; terrible excuse; terrible job engaging the player.

So far, all we have is Jeter's version of what Marty said.

In some pro circles, another version goes like this:

"The ball beat you, the glove was done, you know how it's done Derek."

Then an embarrassed Jeter decided to interpret it to his manager and the press. Ratspeak.

In real time, from the positioning prescribed, it is an understandable call.

[Tim C]

Would any of you have a different perspective of this issue "if" the following was what was "really" said betwix Foster and Jeter:

Foster: "The ball beat you, the tag was down, I had you out."

AND:

Has anyone read anywhere that Hirchbeck talked with Foster before he met with the media?

I am not defending anyone -- I am just wondering what you all would think.

Thanks,

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Would any of you have a different perspective of this issue "if" the following was what was "really" said betwix Foster and Jeter:

Foster: "The ball beat you, the tag was down, I had you out."

AND:

Has anyone read anywhere that Hirchbeck talked with Foster before he met with the media?

I am not defending anyone -- I am just wondering what you all would think.

Thanks,

That's similar to what a PCL umpire told me. As I recall when Hirchbeck talked to the media he mentioned something about he WAS GOING to talk to Foster. I would assume that meant he hadn't yet heard anything about what Foster said except what Jeter was reported to have claimed.

What would I think is this were true? Business as usual for a Rat.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Just a few minutes ago, in the Cubs/Reds game on WGN, Laz Diaz badly butchered a play at the plate, in which he was 3BLX and in perfect position. He just saw a tag when there was none, while at the same time, the runner's foot was all over the plate. The catcher missed the tag by a good 6", yet somehow Laz saw a tag and banged the runner.

What's with the rash of missed calls lately?

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=5757733

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What's with the rash of missed calls lately?

You're just noticing them.

[UMP25]

It was a brutal call, but it's not easy being human.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Good grief, that was brutal. The phantom tag was one of the lamest I have ever seen.