Horrible Mechanics

[JR12]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Question: You are the BU taking that runner to 3rd, and F5 snaps a throw to F4 as R1 is sliding in a cloud of dust at 2nd base after tagging up at 1st. Whatcha gonna do now?

The base umpire has the catch and tag of R2, a glance at R1 if he is tagging, and then he has R1 at 2nd or 1st, and R2 if he returns to 2nd. He does NOT have R2 at 3rd base. That has always been the PU call for at least as long as I've been an umpire in every mechanics manual on planet Earth.

Sorry we go against the book. How often does r1 tag? How bout the overthrow at3b?

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by JR12

Sorry we go against the book. How often does r1 tag? How bout the overthrow at3b?

You get up on your horse and giddy-up back to the cut out at home (while watching the ball to make sure it doesn't go into DBT).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JR12

Sorry we go against the book.

Why reinvent the wheel. The mechanic is like it is for a reason.

Originally Posted by JR12

How often does r1 tag?

Actually quite often on deep drives that are read properly. Many times both runners move up as the throw is to 3rd base. Plus, R1 is BU responsibility at 1st base as well, like if R1 misreads and gets hung up between bases.

Originally Posted by JR12

How bout the overthrow at3b?

Then you follow the CCA, Red Book, etc. mechanics. The PU stays in fair territory and hustles back to the plate area and takes the play at home from there. He is, after all, the Plate Umpire.

[briancurtin]

Even if you say R1 tags 1% of the time, in that 1% of the time, BU is probably 85 feet away and PU is standing there watching skirts blow in the breeze.

On an overthrow, it's called hustle.

Edit: looks like I got beat to the punch

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by JR12

Sorry we go against the book. How often does r1 tag? How bout the overthrow at3b?

I was working my first intrasquad of the spring this year with a friend. I was the BU. Very high level varsity team (Nationally ranked) that was scrimmaging. For some reason we pregamed it that the BU would take the play into 3B with R1 and R2 on a tag-up play. (We changed after this play) Sure enough, there was a catch in right center and R2 tagged to go to third. I safed him at third on a banger, and R1 tagged and went into second. I had to make that call (Safe also) on the run going back toward second. I got it right, but it looked horrible mechanics-wise. We talked between innings and agreed that the PU needs to take that. That's how I've done it all season since that happened.

[JR12]

I'll definatly bring it up at the next meeting.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

So, you are going to leave BU to cover 3 bases on a play which you could help with 1 of them?

And, as Steve said, that is only with an R2 only or there is an R3 at any time. If R1 only or R1 and R2, then PU gets 3B for the play if there is going to be multiple runners such as an R1 and BR now or R2, R1, and BR.

Get out from behind HP and cover a base if possible. Don't leave BU to cover it all at all times. And, this is for hits to the outfield.

GA,

I'm coming up the line to make the call at third on a tag up. The problem I had is that with no catch or no catch verbal or signal, we risk a double call on a force at third. I'm making a call at third base if it is a tag up situation. If the ball is trapped, the force call still should be the call of BU.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JR12

Sorry we go against the book. How often does r1 tag? How bout the overthrow at3b?

Fairly often if R2 tags and there's a throw and play at third.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by JR12

I'll definatly bring it up at the next meeting.

Before you do that, purchase a PBUC or CCA manual (preferably the CCA). Then study it so you can intelligently explain to your organization that what they are doing is incorrect!

Also be sure to add the remark from ManInBlue:

"I've got 3rd if he tags!!!!" the PU yells to his partner as he heads down the 3BL.

This lets the BU know what is going on. If I do not hear this from my partner (I'm the BU), then I know I have all 3 bases and I better be moving into position, not counting on the PU to be there.

[JR12]

Thanks Joe West!

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

GA,

I'm coming up the line to make the call at third on a tag up. The problem I had is that with no catch or no catch verbal or signal, we risk a double call on a force at third. I'm making a call at third base if it is a tag up situation. If the ball is trapped, the force call still should be the call of BU.

No. You get to 3B anticipating the tag up. Then, you will have the force out as well. Are you waiting to see if he tags before going to 3B? If so, you are waiting too long. The force and tag are PU b/c it involves the R2 with BU staying at 2B for R1 and possibly BR.

Get to 3B and be ready for the play whether it is a force or tag. It sounds like the BU is not the only one with poor mechanics. And, no double call if your partner hears "I've got 3B! I've got 3B!" Then, he knows PU has 3B.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

No. You get to 3B anticipating the tag up. Then, you will have the force out as well. Are you waiting to see if he tags before going to 3B? If so, you are waiting too long. The force and tag are PU b/c it involves the R2 with BU staying at 2B for R1 and possibly BR.

Get to 3B and be ready for the play whether it is a force or tag. It sounds like the BU is not the only one with poor mechanics. And, no double call if your partner hears "I've got 3B! I've got 3B!" Then, he knows PU has 3B.

Pausing, reading and reacting when making my way to 3B. Strongly disagree that a force call into third base is the call of the PU. I always discuss tag ups with R1 and R2 and less than two outs during pre-game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

No. You get to 3B anticipating the tag up. Then, you will have the force out as well. Are you waiting to see if he tags before going to 3B? If so, you are waiting too long. The force and tag are PU b/c it involves the R2 with BU staying at 2B for R1 and possibly BR.

Get to 3B and be ready for the play whether it is a force or tag. It sounds like the BU is not the only one with poor mechanics. And, no double call if your partner hears "I've got 3B! I've got 3B!" Then, he knows PU has 3B.

I'm with the guys that expect the base umpire to handle all force plays on the bases. You need distance for tag plays, you only need angle for force plays.

If the ball falls in the outfield, I'm returning home from the library -- the PU only covers third on a TAG play and that requires a catch of the fly ball.

[dash_riprock]

When the ball is hit, PU busts it to the library to read the play. IF the ball is caught, AND the runner tags, AND there is a play on him at 3rd (fielder with the ball + the runner), then get to the cutout. If the ball is not caught, go back home. If there is no play, go back home. PU does not have the force or any other play on the bases.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

When the ball is hit, PU busts it to the library to read the play. IF the ball is caught, AND the runner tags, AND there is a play on him at 3rd (fielder with the ball + the runner), then get to the cutout. If the ball is not caught, go back home. If there is no play, go back home. PU does not have the force or any other play on the bases.

Agreed with Dash and Rich. The play "changed" from a "caught fly" to a "base hit" -- and on a base hit with R1 and R2, PU stays home.