Horrible Mechanics

[njdevs00cup]

R1 and R2 and one out. I've got the plate. I told my partner during pre-game that I would take the call at third base on a tag up. Batter hits a bloop into center field, which F8 charges and appeared to trap. BU gives no signal and no verbal. Runners don't know whether to return to the base or run. I don't know whether to come up the line to make a call on a possible tag up into 3B. Apparently BU ruled the ball was caught because F8 threw the ball to F3 to double off R1.

The question which popped into my head as I was driving home is what should I have done if the throw went into third base, as this could have been a tag play (assuming R2 went back to tag and the ball was caught) or force play (if the ball wasn't caught)?

[Ump Rube]

I think that you would have to make the call on what you saw. If you have a catch then call on the tag, if you have a trap call on the force. When it's your partner's call and he does nothing you cannot make the call for him, he needs to either call it or ask for help. If you try to make the call for him you run the risk of double-calling the play which I have found to be a bigger problem then not calling anything.

[GA Umpire]

I have a question. Were you already going to 3B? If not, why? If you are going to cover a tag up, then why weren't you getting there as the play developed? You should have been there as soon as the ball was going to the outfield. If you have 3B on the tag up, you should have 3B on the play unless you read it as they would have no chance on him after the ball wasn't caught and stayed at the plate for a possible play. Otherwise, you will be making the call at 3B on the run since you are hanging out at the plate to wait and see if he tags up.

So, as soon as I can see the fly ball is going to the outfield(exception is a ball down RF line), I am heading to 3B to cover the play there while my partner has 2B and possibly 1B.

[JR12]

Why would the PU take a tag up into 3rd? It's the BU call!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JR12

Why would the PU take a tag up into 3rd? It's the BU call!

No, it is the PU call with R1 and R2. BU with R2 only.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by JR12

Why would the PU take a tag up into 3rd? It's the BU call!

Correct.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by JR12

Why would the PU take a tag up into 3rd? It's the BU call!

So, you are going to leave BU to cover 3 bases on a play which you could help with 1 of them?

And, as Steve said, that is only with an R2 only or there is an R3 at any time. If R1 only or R1 and R2, then PU gets 3B for the play if there is going to be multiple runners such as an R1 and BR now or R2, R1, and BR.

Get out from behind HP and cover a base if possible. Don't leave BU to cover it all at all times. And, this is for hits to the outfield.

[Tim C]

"Why would the PU take a tag up into 3rd? It's the BU call!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR12
Why would the PU take a tag up into 3rd? It's the BU call!

Correct.

As usual I am probably misunderstanding these two posts.

With R1 and R2 and less than 2 out. A tag up and play to third on R2 is 100% the responsibility of the PU.

The only time the PU does not take this call is when the flight of the ball takes him to RF line for a fair/foul call.

Am I missing something or do these two comments above NOT say the BU has the call at third?

It is hard enough for the BU to line up the tag at second, make a judgement on catch/no catch that the tag up at first is a guess after a glance. AND during this the PU would be sitting on his duff.

The PU moves towards the kitchen and then enters to the cut out if there is a runner, fielder and ball for a play.

Regards,

[JR12]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

So, you are going to leave BU to cover 3 bases on a play which you could help with 1 of them?

And, as Steve said, that is only with an R2 only or there is an R3 at any time. If R1 only or R1 and R2, then PU gets 3B for the play if there is going to be multiple runners such as an R1 and BR now or R2, R1, and BR.

Get out from behind HP and cover a base if possible. Don't leave BU to cover it all at all times. And, this is for hits to the outfield.

I get out from behind HP, but not in that situation. It's not the way 2 man crew works here. In the OP the Bu has the catch, tag and play at third. I would guess that R1 would have went halfway.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by JR12

I get out from behind HP, but not in that situation. It's not the way 2 man crew works here. In the OP the Bu has the catch, tag and play at third. I would guess that R1 would have went halfway.

If it doesn't work that way, then I am glad I am not BU on that field. I am at 3B on that play every time unless ball toward RF foul line.

[UmpJM]

JR12,

What mechanics manual do you use "here"?

Because what Tim has decribed is exactly the way the PBUC Red Book and the CCA Manual say it should be handled in two man.

(Except I call it the "library" rather than the "kitchen" - because the library is where you go to "read", and the kitchen is where you go to get a beer. And I usually wait until after the game for that.)

JM

[ManInBlue]

"I've got 3rd if he tags!!!!" the PU yells to his partner as he heads down the 3BL.

Proper 2 man mechanic and taught EVERYwhere I've ever been. PU has lead runner, BU has trailing runner.

In the OP - Wait for the play, ask your partner if he had a catch and make the call based on what he tells you. It's his call, force him to make it. That may not be the correct way to handle it, but I've been hung out by a partner with piss poor mechanics and I've have since decide to force his hand when it happens (at least if I'm ever on the field with certain partners).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JR12

I get out from behind HP, but not in that situation. It's not the way 2 man crew works here. In the OP the Bu has the catch, tag and play at third. I would guess that R1 would have went halfway.

Question: You are the BU taking that runner to 3rd, and F5 snaps a throw to F4 as R1 is sliding in a cloud of dust at 2nd base after tagging up at 1st. Whatcha gonna do now?

The base umpire has the catch and tag of R2, a glance at R1 if he is tagging, and then he has R1 at 2nd or 1st, and R2 if he returns to 2nd. He does NOT have R2 at 3rd base. That has always been the PU call for at least as long as I've been an umpire in every mechanics manual on planet Earth.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JR12

Why would the PU take a tag up into 3rd? It's the BU call!

Originally Posted by Matt

Correct.

Neither of you is correct, but you know that by now.

With R1+R2, the plate umpire has the play at third. The BU may have the catch, will have the tag at second, but the play at third belongs to the plate umpire if he doesn't call out "I'm on the line."

We had a play this season where I had a very close play at third (safe) and F5 gunned it to second and my partner was standing right there and called R1 out. If the BU had to get that himself, it would be very difficult. It could be done, but would look terrible.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Neither of you is correct, but you know that by now.

I have learned not to respond with a viral headache. I still don't know what the hell I was thinking.