Horrible Mechanics

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

I'm am standing on the dirt a top the hill of dirt you have dug up. A trouble ball caught or uncaught requires a signal of catch or no catch. All involved, umpires, runners and coaches base their actions upon whether the ball was caught or not.

Then, if you are unsure of what to do, you can do 2 things. Go with calling "I've got 3rd!" and stick with it. Or, stand back and let your partner have all calls. For me, if there is a question, I would rather be at 3B than to have my BU looking at me like "What is your call?" If you tell him you are there and everyone hears you, then the blame goes on him for not listening. If you stay at HP and say nothing, then you look like the fool. At least yell at him "Staying Home! Staying Home!" If you at least communicate what you are doing, then the blame can be shifted to your partner for not doing something which is his job and he is the one who looks bad.

But, if you just stand there and look like a "deer in the headlights", you look bad. Communicate something to him whether "I've got 3rd!" or "Staying Home!" Either way looks better than just wondering "What is my BU going to do?"

And, you still didn't pregame the part about if umpire makes no call. Shame on you since you want to accuse me of not covering this in pregame. At least I know how to communicate everything of what I am doing.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The main problem with your OP is this



No one knows what is going on. If the BU gave no signal it appears he has NO CLUE along with the Players and YOU on what's going on.

Each of us has our OWN responsibilities out there.

As both TEE and Rich pointed out with R1/R2 the PU covers third base on the tag UP UNLESS it's a CLEAR CUT Single which from the OP it was not.

Here is what has me puzzled



You say APPARENTLY BU Ruled. What's that! Either we have a catch or no catch. We do not have a MAYBE.

Based upon the STRICT wording of your OP it appears NOTHING was called because of your phrase APPARENTLY BU ruled. Therefore, EXACTLY what happened on this play? Was a call on the catch / no catch EVER made?

If R1 was doubled off with an apparent no call on the catch / no catch where was the OM because surely he is going to get tossed.

IMO, once we KNOW what happened then perhaps your question about what to do can be answered more effectively.

Pete Booth

Pete,

No signal was ever made on catch no catch. The runners, defense and base coaches did not know what to do. The only call which was ever made was the base umpire calling R1 out at first. This is why I say "apparently" caught the ball. The OM showed incredible restraint for a Senior Legion manager (heck a LL OM would be ticked off).

Matt

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

However, it does remain consistent and until they change it to how I think this type of play should be handled, then I will remain with the book and even then, I would be with the book.

Don't hold your breath.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Then, if you are unsure of what to do, you can do 2 things. Go with calling "I've got 3rd!" and stick with it. Or, stand back and let your partner have all calls. For me, if there is a question, I would rather be at 3B than to have my BU looking at me like "What is your call?" If you tell him you are there and everyone hears you, then the blame goes on him for not listening. If you stay at HP and say nothing, then you look like the fool. At least yell at him "Staying Home! Staying Home!" If you at least communicate what you are doing, then the blame can be shifted to your partner for not doing something which is his job and he is the one who looks bad.

But, if you just stand there and look like a "deer in the headlights", you look bad. Communicate something to him whether "I've got 3rd!" or "Staying Home!" Either way looks better than just wondering "What is my BU going to do?"

And, you still didn't pregame the part about if umpire makes no call. Shame on you since you want to accuse me of not covering this in pregame. At least I know how to communicate everything of what I am doing.

The dirt mound I stand a top gets bigger. Are you kidding a pregame discussion about umpires not making the calls they are supposed to make. The purpose of the pregame is for both umpires to get on the same page regarding responsibilities. I believe the BU covered this when he said, "I will have all fly balls inside the V when I am in B or C."

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

The dirt mound I stand a top gets bigger. Are you kidding a pregame discussion about umpires not making the calls they are supposed to make. The purpose of the pregame is for both umpires to get on the same page regarding responsibilities. I believe the BU covered this when he said, "I will have all fly balls inside the V when I am in B or C."

Boy, do you miss scarcasm. No, you don't pregame the "umpire makes no call". Geez. Now, I know to be straight forward with you. Anything else is a waste.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Don't hold your breath.

No doubt. Maybe if I get on the committee. Hmmmmmm... Who do I have to bribe for that one?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Then, if you are unsure of what to do, you can do 2 things. Go with calling "I've got 3rd!" and stick with it. Or, stand back and let your partner have all calls. For me, if there is a question, I would rather be at 3B than to have my BU looking at me like "What is your call?" If you tell him you are there and everyone hears you, then the blame goes on him for not listening. If you stay at HP and say nothing, then you look like the fool. At least yell at him "Staying Home! Staying Home!" If you at least communicate what you are doing, then the blame can be shifted to your partner for not doing something which is his job and he is the one who looks bad.

But, if you just stand there and look like a "deer in the headlights", you look bad. Communicate something to him whether "I've got 3rd!" or "Staying Home!" Either way looks better than just wondering "What is my BU going to do?"

Yes, whether you follow the prescribed, accepted mechanic for the play, or choose to cover third anyway, let your partner know! If I see the ball fall in (I know the OP BU didn't indicate one or the other), I know that the BU is going to have the force play at 3rd, so I begin my retreat with a right-foot drop step, while hollering "I'm going home, John" (if it is indeed John ) twice, so he knows for sure he's got the call. But, if he is an experienced member of the association, he already knows I'm going home, and knows he has 3rd, because we don't invent new mechanics.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes, false hustle is exactly what it is. Just like it is false hustle for the PU to run all the way up the 1st base line past the 45ft. line on a ground ball with no runners on. Instead of coming to a set position as the throw approaches F3, the false hustler continues running toward first base to give the appearance that he's a real jackrabbit. All the coaches oooh and aaah about how he hustles, but he isn't set to see the play he's running up there to watch. I see it all too often, especially from the young "fit and trim" umpires trying to show off their speed.

Well, I'll plead guilty on this one. I really think coming set is overrated.

I make calls on the run in football and basketball all the time and I'll frequently run "through the catch" when I'm out in the outfield. I'll frequently run until the play is completed at first and continue on through a U-turn back to the plate. But I'm not doing it to show false hustle. I'd just rather keep moving.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Pete,

No signal was ever made on catch no catch. The runners, defense and base coaches did not know what to do.

I hope you had a POST game with your partner and TOLD him NEXT time signal something.

It's one thing if it's a 'can of corn" or the ball clearly dropped. It's quite another on a Troubled ball

Pete Booth

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Well, I'll plead guilty on this one. I really think coming set is overrated.

I make calls on the run in football and basketball all the time and I'll frequently run "through the catch" when I'm out in the outfield. I'll frequently run until the play is completed at first and continue on through a U-turn back to the plate. But I'm not doing it to show false hustle. I'd just rather keep moving.

On 99% of the routine plays at first, this is okay, and as you say, you are just making a U-turn. But if you, as the PU, see that it's going to be a real nut-cutter at first, don't you think you would see the play better from the "standing set" position than running with your head bobbing up and down?

[njdevs00cup]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;609668]

I hope you had a POST game with your partner and TOLD him NEXT time signal something.

It's one thing if it's a 'can of corn" or the ball clearly dropped. It's quite another on a Troubled ball

Pete Booth

Pete,

After the game I asked the BU about the call. He said, "In my mind it was a catch!" I explained the confusion the lack of a call caused for all involved and he asked, "Did you think he caught it?" I wished him a good night and checked my list of future assignments and partners.

I can only venture a guess that he was not sure whether the ball was caught or not, figured it was to call nothing and let F8's throw to 1B dictate whether it was a catch or not in his mind.
Matt

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Well, I'll plead guilty on this one. I really think coming set is overrated.

Too many studies have shown the effect that body motion has on visual perception and accuracy. Just because other sporst don't allow the luxury of coming set doesn't mean it should be downplayed or discarded.

One doesn't need to come to hands on knees set, but one should at least come to a standing set (motionless) at the time of play. Even on DP's one should be at a standing set for the play and them move while signalling the call at second and then come set again for the play at first.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Too many studies have shown the effect that body motion has on visual perception and accuracy. Just because other sporst don't allow the luxury of coming set doesn't mean it should be downplayed or discarded.

One doesn't need to come to hands on knees set, but one should at least come to a standing set (motionless) at the time of play. Even on DP's one should be at a standing set for the play and them move while signalling the call at second and then come set again for the play at first.

I agree. I have tried (especially in basketball) to be set or stationary more often, especially as lead, on drives to the hoop and other plays where there's a lot going on. I find it helps me see what's going on.

Football is another story, though it's often possible to get set as a pass comes down.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Too many studies have shown the effect that body motion has on visual perception and accuracy. Just because other sporst don't allow the luxury of coming set doesn't mean it should be downplayed or discarded.

One doesn't need to come to hands on knees set, but one should at least come to a standing set (motionless) at the time of play. Even on DP's one should be at a standing set for the play and them move while signalling the call at second and then come set again for the play at first.

I agree, when I'm making a call or when I read a bad throw in the infield or a trouble ball in the outfield. But if it's a can of corn or a true throw? I'm not needed anyway, why stop?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The main problem with your OP is this



No one knows what is going on. If the BU gave no signal it appears he has NO CLUE along with the Players and YOU on what's going on.

Each of us has our OWN responsibilities out there.

As both TEE and Rich pointed out with R1/R2 the PU covers third base on the tag UP UNLESS it's a CLEAR CUT Single which from the OP it was not.

Here is what has me puzzled



You say APPARENTLY BU Ruled. What's that! Either we have a catch or no catch. We do not have a MAYBE.

Based upon the STRICT wording of your OP it appears NOTHING was called because of your phrase APPARENTLY BU ruled. Therefore, EXACTLY what happened on this play? Was a call on the catch / no catch EVER made?

If R1 was doubled off with an apparent no call on the catch / no catch where was the OM because surely he is going to get tossed.

IMO, once we KNOW what happened then perhaps your question about what to do can be answered more effectively.

Pete Booth

Thamk you Pete for putting the thread back on point.