Pick off attempt goes out of play

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by travlinmatt

FED Rules. Runner on 1st. RHP comes set. He then steps back off the pitcher's plate and throws to F3. The ball sails over F3's head and goes out of play. What do you award to R1?

I am currently debating this with another umpire.

I argue 1 base is awarded. My counterpart argues 2. The strict reading of rule 8.3.3d does allow for interpretation.

Rule 8.3.3d: "Each runner is awarded one base if a pitch or any throw from the pitcher from his pitching position on his plate goes into a stand or bench...."

My counterpart states that if the pitcher throws directly from the plate, one base is awarded, but by stepping backward the pitcher becomes a fielder and therefore 2 bases must be awarded. I disagree completely and believe that the key to the rule is "from the pitching position." His interpretation is "from the pitcher's plate."

Please Clarify. I appreciate it.

Matt

The 1B award listed in 8-3-3D is for a pitch pick-off attempt made while engaged. nopachunts is right. Once disengaged his a fielder and his throw are treated as such.

[UmpJM]

travlinmatt,

Your counterpart is absolutely correct.

"one from the rubber, two from the field"

JM

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

travlinmatt,

Your counterpart is absolutely correct.

"one from the rubber, two from the field"

JM

three to get ready, and four to go!

Oh, never mind.

[bossman72]

2 base award matt!

[ozzy6900]

Sigh!

Try to remember that F1 can either throw from the rubber (he is a pitcher) or step off (he becomes a fielder). Now remember this and memorize the following:

1 from the rubber
2 from the field

Now go apologize to your partner for not knowing rules and arguing with he who does! Buy him a beer, also.

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Sigh!

Try to remember that F1 can either throw from the rubber (he is a pitcher) or step off (he becomes a fielder). Now remember this and memorize the following:

1 from the rubber
2 from the field

Now go apologize to your partner for not knowing rules and arguing with he who does! Buy him a beer, also.

It shoud be at least two.. one for arguing, one for causing his friend to bang his head on the wall

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

three to get ready, and four to go!

Oh, never mind.

AND GO CAT GO!!

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

travlinmatt,

Your counterpart is absolutely correct.

"one from the rubber, two from the field"

JM

And, just to further confuse Matt, a jump turn and a jab step are also both one base awards (if the ball is thrown out of play), even though F1 isn't touching the rubber at the time of the throw.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And, just to further confuse Matt, a jump turn and a jab step are also both one base awards (if the ball is thrown out of play), even though F1 isn't touching the rubber at the time of the throw.

As you know, Bob, this is a bit of a red herring: it all depends on what you mean by "time of the throw." These moves begin with F1 in contact and end with a throw (or legal feint, I suppose -- LHP doing the move to 3B may feint) to a base.

When addressing coaches and small children, I prefer to keep it simple: did he step off first or not? 2 bases or 1, accordingly.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

As you know, Bob, this is a bit of a red herring: it all depends on what you mean by "time of the throw." These moves begin with F1 in contact and end with a throw (or legal feint, I suppose -- LHP doing the move to 3B may feint) to a base.

When addressing coaches and small children, I prefer to keep it simple: did he step off first or not? 2 bases or 1, accordingly.

Agreed, but way too many coaches, players, fans, and even umpires, don't understand the distinction.

[travlinmatt]

Bob,

This is exactly the reason for my post. I greatly appreciate this distinction. A snap throw to first by a RHP could create a situation where the pitcher's foot breaks contact with the plate prior to releasing the ball. I appreciate that you have stated that this situation does in fact result in one base being awarded. I guess the real question should have been to distinguish between a quick move and a deliberate step back then throw. Your post makes this the most clear of any. Thanks.

Matt

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by travlinmatt

Bob,

This is exactly the reason for my post. I greatly appreciate this distinction. A snap throw to first by a RHP could create a situation where the pitcher's foot breaks contact with the plate prior to releasing the ball. I appreciate that you have stated that this situation does in fact result in one base being awarded. I guess the real question should have been to distinguish between a quick move and a deliberate step back then throw. Your post makes this the most clear of any. Thanks.

Matt

Matt, you might be overthinking this a bit. If the pitcher steps back off of the rubber he is now a fielder. To keep it simple for the purposes of this discussion, most of the other legal moves are from the rubber. Other posts above define some of the specific differences for the 1 base or the 2 base award.

[Rich]

I had a pitcher in the windup position step off legally and then bring his hands up over his head as if he was pitching -- in order to abruptly stop and throw to third to nail R3.

After I balk in the run, I hear this "he's just a fielder, he's just a fielder" nonsense. Of course, they forgot the existence of 8.05(g).