Video posted on the NFHS Discussion Forum.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

There's the problem. You're thinking like a parent, whereas we understand how to perform like an umpire.

Nothing good can come from physically getting involved. Our job is, to the best of our ability, record the violators.

Well, I can't disagree with you all...but I am NOT thinking as a parent, and that's my problem...I'm thinking as a 32-year cop....trying to establish some order without hands on (I agree with that), but you're right....too much cop trying to establish order...better to back off and sort it out long distance....
Whew! That's hard for me to do.....

[David B]

Originally Posted by Welpe

This interpretation also makes the ruling similar as football and basketball, which I think is something that the Fed wants in this situation.

But in basketball we don't eject everyone that leaves the benches. There is a specific rule in the books how to handle it. That is what I'm thinking on this type of play.

I've had a brawl situation in basketball, we restored order, awarded the T's and continued with no further incident.

That seems to be what they did here and I think that is one good way to handle it.

I could be wrong, and I'm sure FED probably needs to address this for the future like they have in basketball.

Thansk
David

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by David B

But in basketball we don't eject everyone that leaves the benches. There is a specific rule in the books how to handle it. That is what I'm thinking on this type of play.

I've had a brawl situation in basketball, we restored order, awarded the T's and continued with no further incident.

That seems to be what they did here and I think that is one good way to handle it.

I could be wrong, and I'm sure FED probably needs to address this for the future like they have in basketball.

Thansk
David

Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted a previous post in this thread. I did not mean that the game ended immediately but that all players leaving their position were ejected for fighting.

In football, any player that leaves the team area during a fight is disqualified. They don't have to actually participate, just leave the team box. I thought it was similar in basketball that any play leaving the bench during a fight is ejected.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

I'm thinking as a 32-year cop

I'm not so sure that's why you thought you did...because I know I didn't have the same thought as you. I think you were probably thinking as a parent, as you initially stated.

[David B]

Originally Posted by David B

But in basketball we don't eject everyone that leaves the benches. There is a specific rule in the books how to handle it. That is what I'm thinking on this type of play.

I've had a brawl situation in basketball, we restored order, awarded the T's and continued with no further incident.

That seems to be what they did here and I think that is one good way to handle it.

I could be wrong, and I'm sure FED probably needs to address this for the future like they have in basketball.

Thansk
David

I must have not been thinking but I misspoke above, everyone that leaves the bench is ejected in basketball. Don't know where I got that from.

Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks
DAvid

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Matt

You're not going to be effective attempting to break up a brawl, unless you use adequate force to incapacitate the participants. You also run the risk of being attacked yourself.

What's a video camera have to do with this, anyway? Are you implying the risk of a lawsuit? It's not going to be successful.

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

No way on earth do I put my hands on a kid. Never, ever, ever.

I could get injured, the kid could get injured. No way...I would never even consider it.

Joe in Missouri

These two posts are spot on.

Step back and take numbers - either the ones on the field or the ones left on the bench. Eject the offenders and go from there. Nothing good comes from touching a kid in a fight.

[Welpe]

After a quick search, I now remember reading this thread in the basketball forum. Fight scenario

Is it no longer correct to eject players leaving the bench that do not participate?

Edit: Never mind, you snuck a reply in on me while I was still writing mine.

Sorry for discussing basketball and football here, but I think it is worth exploring to see if the Fed has similar thinking in similar situations in other sports.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Sorry for discussing basketball and football here, but I think it is worth exploring to see if the Fed has similar thinking in similar situations in other sports.

In general, trying to compare sports is a mistake. Remember that "FED" is a committee of committees. There is no expectation of consistency across every sport, except at the most abstract level (every sport emphasizes "safety," for example, but that means something very different in volleyball and football).

The rules committees for different sports do not get together and consult about whether everyone who leaves the bench during a fight is ejected.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by Matt

I'm not so sure that's why you thought you did...because I know I didn't have the same thought as you. I think you were probably thinking as a parent, as you initially stated.

wrong

[JR12]

[QUOTE=Bishopcolle;603720]Well, I can't disagree with you all...but I am NOT thinking as a parent, and that's my problem...I'm thinking as a 32-year cop....trying to establish some order without hands on (I agree with that), but you're right....too much cop trying to establish order...better to back off and sort it out long distance....
Whew! That's hard for me to do.....[/QUOTE

I'm a cop too, however my dept says off duty the only REQUIREMENT is to call 911.If I decide to take action I run the risk of civil liability and a possible IA complaint. Also I rarely do games in the jurisdiction I work. Therefore if I would write down numbers, don't touch anyone, ensure the ON DUTY Police are called, make ejections, be a good witness, That way I make my assoc. and department happy!
Old motto from an old timer cop. "If you put your hands on someone, lock them up"!

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

Disagree....As a parent, if you do nothing other than save my kid some serious injury (not an ***-kicking, but serious), I would be grateful....If some video camera catches you writing, instead of separating--at least, trying to separate--than I think you have problems....And as I said, you're not going to be effective writing down numbers in this brawl...just busy work...

You couldn't be more wrong about that.

Sure, you SAY right now that you would be grateful. And then, if/when your kid got a bruise from where the umpire slung him out of the way, you'd be squawking about "pain and suffering," and hiring a lawyer. And if you personally wouldn't, I guarantee there are those out there that would.

(Remember, all non-umpire attendees at a baseball game are our friends, until something goes against them.)

The fighters at that game have coaches - they're the ones that can step in and get hit, or take the wrath of the helicopter parents. You take numbers, since you're writing the report after the game - a legal document, remember.

[DonInKansas]

Leave the bench area, leave the game. Simple as that. I'm not getting involved; only bad things can happen in a lawsuit-happy no sense society. The only way I step in is if someone gets hurt and can't defend themselves and is in immediate danger. Then I'm doing what I can to get that individual to safety.

Thanks heaven I haven't had to deal with this kind of noise.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

Well, I can't disagree with you all...but I am NOT thinking as a parent, and that's my problem...I'm thinking as a 32-year cop....trying to establish some order without hands on (I agree with that), but you're right....too much cop trying to establish order...better to back off and sort it out long distance....
Whew! That's hard for me to do.....

It's easy! You're hang-up is your badge! That is what allows you do become "involved" in an altercation. Umpires are officials but not police. We cannot become involved with the altercation once it starts. We can try and prevent it, but once it starts, the law is not with us if we get involved.

Example: Police officer grabs Player1 by the arm and Player2 punches Player1 in the face breaking his jaw. The officer is not sued for holding the arm of Player1. We as sports officials would be.

[umpjong]

I always found that pulling my off duty weapon out of my spare ball bag and firing a warning shot was very effective.... (at least it worked for me )

[Ump Rube]

I didn't realize that Galco made holster/ball-bags. Can you post a review when you have spare couple of minutes.