How should I have handled this

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Matt

Not necessarily.

People placed in positions of authority have an initial problem--they now have to exert that authority, but don't have the experience to know what works and what doesn't. When this happens, they default to what they have seen others in the same position do, not realizing that the noticeable actions of those others are an irrepresentative minority and that the majority of actions taken in the exertion of authority are very small and often almost invisible. In other words, they've got to skin the cat, but the messiest way is what they remember, because it sticks out.

This has been shown with cops, military personnel achieving leadership positions for the first time, and others in similar positions. Give them time and guidance--they'll probably get better.

I would tend to agree if these were experienced young men, or anyone with the right to carry guns. These guys are teenagers. And they are, by this account, unacceptably disrespectful of a respectful and respectable adult. They can come back and try again when they grow up and develop a sense of respect and the respectability that comes with it.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I would tend to agree if these were experienced young men, or anyone with the right to carry guns. These guys are teenagers. And they are, by this account, unacceptably disrespectful of a respectful and respectable adult. They can come back and try again when they grow up and develop a sense of respect and the respectability that comes with it.

No, they chose to exert authority in the wrong way. Age is irrelevant to this action--they could have been in their 20s or 40s, and this still very likely would have occurred, assuming the same level of inexperience.

How many times have we seen stories on here or other boards about adults trying to railroad young umpires? The age of the person doesn't matter in this situation--they were still the authority figure, and they felt that they had their authority challenged.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

As far as the two yutes, I think you handled it better than I would have. I probably would have let them know in no uncertain terms that they are wet-behind-the-ears and couldn't carry my mask to the pre-game plate conference. Then I would have probably informed them that I have been umpiring since long before they were a gleam in their daddy's eye on a cold winter night. Then I probably would have asked them if they talked this way with all aduts, or was I just the lucky guy today. Then I would have talked to the UIC. Then I would have said that I don't want them ever on one of my games, and recommend disciplinary action for a couple of smart-*** kids.

I don't put up with sass from children.

You are looking at it the wrong way. They are the authority figures, not the adult coach in the conversation. While there is disrespect, there is not the social norm of elder/youth interaction.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Matt

No, they chose to exert authority in the wrong way. Age is irrelevant to this action--they could have been in their 20s or 40s, and this still very likely would have occurred, assuming the same level of inexperience.

How many times have we seen stories on here or other boards about adults trying to railroad young umpires? The age of the person doesn't matter in this situation--they were still the authority figure, and they felt that they had their authority challenged.



You are looking at it the wrong way. They are the authority figures, not the adult coach in the conversation. While there is disrespect, there is not the social norm of elder/youth interaction.

Well, Matt, age is 1000 percent relevant to this---it's everything. They are kids and kids don't talk to men that way. Period.

Matt, you are struggling to defend the behavior of two kids, whose behavior is inexcusable in any capacity they mistakenly find themselves. You're being strangely defensive of these two youts. What's the story?

[socalblue1]

You handled this fine, though I would suggest there may be a different option. Why not go out & talk to the umpire after the 1st non-call? You would have had the answer (Same as the post game conversation). Then come the magic words "I protest".

These two would have learned a real lesson when the protest was upheld: learn the rules!. The PITA of having to write the report, go to a hearing, find out they made a huge mistake (Twice) on a very basic rule + being held accountable for same would be a valuable learning process.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Well, Matt, age is 1000 percent relevant to this---it's everything. They are kids and kids don't talk to men that way. Period.

You're wrong, yet again.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Matt, you are struggling to defend the behavior of two kids, whose behavior is inexcusable in any capacity they mistakenly find themselves. You're being strangely defensive of these two youts. What's the story?

I have not defended their behavior at all.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Matt

You're wrong, yet again.



I have not defended their behavior at all.

Okay. I'm wrong.

Children can and should talk to respectful, respectable adults the way those two addressed Mr. Washburn. According to you, Matt.

In what society is that brand of behavior welcome from kids? And what would you like us to call it as you curiously and assiduously defend the smart-a$$ed behavior of these two kids posing as umpires?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay. I'm wrong.

Children can and should talk to respectful, respectable adults the way those two addressed Mr. Washburn. According to you, Matt.

This shows the level of your integrity--making things up that I have never said.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

In what society is that brand of behavior welcome from kids? And what would you like us to call it as you curiously and assiduously defend the smart-a$$ed behavior of these two kids posing as umpires?

Tell me where I defended the behavior. I gave an explanation as to why they acted this way, but never defended it.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Matt

This shows the level of your integrity--making things up that I have never said.



Tell me where I defended the behavior. I gave an explanation as to why they acted this way, but never defended it.

Oh.

It read as a defense. And I didn't quote you, but voiced my interpretation of your curious defense of these two.

I didn't question your integrity, so please don't misread something and then insult mine.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay. I'm wrong.

Children can and should talk to respectful, respectable adults the way those two addressed Mr. Washburn. According to you, Matt.

In what society is that brand of behavior welcome from kids? And what would you like us to call it as you curiously and assiduously defend the smart-a$$ed behavior of these two kids posing as umpires?

Okay. Open question to all of you in the "these kids today, with their hair and their clothes, why you little ... mumble mumble five cents for a movie mumble mumble FDR mumble" group:

Is the pitchfork-and-torch reaction based on the response, or the age, of the umpires in question?

In other words: make these umpires my age (nearly 44), and try to replay the scenario in your head cleanly. Would you still harrumph as much, or would your responses to the OP been more of a "don't f--- with the umpires post-game about calls"? I believe it would be the latter.

Look, on this board on numerous occasions, as I said before, there are stories of Dad/Junior/Junior's Coach approaching an umpire at his car, or on his way to the lot, after a game. And we on the board have had the consensus of that being A Bad Thing.

If you hate the upcoming generations, fine - but just be honest and admit it influences your response here. (Like I said earlier, I have 2 teens of my own, and witnessing what's coming through the pipeline, with the MyFaceSpaceBook, and seemingly every kid acting like a wannabe gangsta, etc, etc, makes me worry about when that generation is in charge of my breathing tube one day. But I try not to knee-jerk about every last d@mn one of them.)

....and I'm not condoning whichever umpire yelled at jwwashburn as he walked away. I do think the "stop sign" and the "that's enough", while not the optimal response, probably, was still a response to the essential statement of "I know the rule, and maybe you should try learning the rules sometime" from a 'rat coach.' We all know that's what WE'D think if we'd been the umpires at the car.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

Okay. Open question to all of you in the "these kids today, with their hair and their clothes, why you little ... mumble mumble five cents for a movie mumble mumble FDR mumble" group:

Is the pitchfork-and-torch reaction based on the response, or the age, of the umpires in question?

In other words: make these umpires my age (nearly 44), and try to replay the scenario in your head cleanly. Would you still harrumph as much, or would your responses to the OP been more of a "don't f--- with the umpires post-game about calls"? I believe it would be the latter.

Look, on this board on numerous occasions, as I said before, there are stories of Dad/Junior/Junior's Coach approaching an umpire at his car, or on his way to the lot, after a game. And we on the board have had the consensus of that being A Bad Thing.

If you hate the upcoming generations, fine - but just be honest and admit it influences your response here. (Like I said earlier, I have 2 teens of my own, and witnessing what's coming through the pipeline, with the MyFaceSpaceBook, and seemingly every kid acting like a wannabe gangsta, etc, etc, makes me worry about when that generation is in charge of my breathing tube one day. But I try not to knee-jerk about every last d@mn one of them.)

....and I'm not condoning whichever umpire yelled at jwwashburn as he walked away. I do think the "stop sign" and the "that's enough", while not the optimal response, probably, was still a response to the essential statement of "I know the rule, and maybe you should try learning the rules sometime" from a 'rat coach.' We all know that's what WE'D think if we'd been the umpires at the car.

I'm astonished that you would infer all of this based on our opinion on the specific case of two smart-a$$ed kids in a youth baseball setting.