When did they change the balk rule?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Small town??? Son, the fact that you believe the Chicago Metropolitan area is a small-town environment only serves to prove your lack of understanding reality.

Oh, and simply asking a head coach when I should call a balk is not being verbose. He told me I couldn't call a balk. I asked him under which situations it is acceptable to call one. He then swore at me. I appropriately ejected him.

You just can't accept the fact that I am still successful as a college umpire, despite having a few ejections per year.

The post you made describing exactly what you said detailed an encounter in which you were verbose.

I couldn't care less about your "success." You unprofessionally baited a coach and then ejected him. Then you posted it and bragged about it. That puts you in your place and you did it yourself. You can defend your lack of restraint and professionalism all you like, it's still not the way most umpires choose to operate, and your results demonstrate why.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Agreed. Some coaches just need runnin', and baiting them a little is a long-standing tradition and art form that the modern umpire eschews in favor of being "niiiiiiice." Screw that.

Well, yes, some folks need runnin', just like some folks need killin', but let them run themselves.

And I don't think it's about being 'niiiiiiice' for the 'modern umpire.' It's about being a professional. Look, I'm not in the aforementioned Internet Umpire Forum Inner Sanctum(tm) (IUFIS in future postings), and I haven't worked a real college game, nor have I hit 1,000 games, never mind multi-thousands. But I'm trying to take it, and my games, seriously. And for what it's worth, I'm an '08 JEA grad, and we weren't taught to bait, and get the last word, and all that. They were teaching professionalism, even if the guys in the dugouts aren't. So that's where I approach it from.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

That's new information, then. I know the OP said you turned and the HC was already there, but now it's clarified that he came roaring out. And that he's screaming. (Not trying to be pedantic, but you seem to have detailed it more at this point.)

You're not being pedantic. I probably neglected to specify it and did so in follow-up posts. Yes, I turned and found him at the dirt area of home plate, but this was because he had bolted out of the dugout to get there and begin his yelling at me.

I'm hoping that wasn't directed at my query, although I realize I started the sh!tstorm here. I'm not asking about your game mgmt, and I don't think I was being sanctimonious. When I read the OP, I just felt "that didn't seem right to me," and that it read as though you baited him into that. Sure, he swore at you, so you ran him. But don't you think your responses from the start channeled his Force/karma/ki right into the EJ? I do. And I'm not alone, either. It's not as simple as your latest post: "I asked him under which situations it is acceptable to call one." I'm sure that's what the EJ report read, but still.

(And isn't more swearing allowed the older/higher level it goes? Or is the NCAA like high school about it?)

And my original point is: if one of us, that haven't been accepted into the Internet Forum Umpire Inner Sanctum, told that same story as posted, we'd be ripped 7 ways to Sunday for it, because we baited the HC. And we'd get told how we'll never work above middle school, or some other d@mn thing, and how we needed to work on our game management.

So maybe as a successful college umpire, you'd consider taking that on board.

I'd prefer not to take on a board as you mention. I may offer advice to some here or elsewhere, but I choose to not rip people apart as being unprofessional, and I choose to not degrade people to imply that they're terrible umpires and I'm somehow the world's greatest. I'm not; I'm human. I have been successful at what I do, and I'd like to think one reason, among others, is that I continually work to tweak or improve things, adopt to new things, and more.

BTW, yes, I included on the umpire's report exactly what was said by the head coach and me and what led up to it. The conference and/or school will handle it. It's not like it's considered a major incident, fortunately.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You unprofessionally baited a coach and then ejected him. Then you posted it and bragged about it.

Perhaps you ought to look up the definition of the word "brag," because I certainly did not "brag." My purpose of the thread was to simply have a laugh at a change in the balk rule insofar as when one should or should not be called.

I'd bet five bucks your sense of humor is also virtually nonexistent, especially off the field.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Perhaps you ought to look up the definition of the word "brag," because I certainly did not "brag." My purpose of the thread was to simply have a laugh at a change in the balk rule insofar as when one should or should not be called.

I'd bet five bucks your sense of humor is also virtually nonexistent, especially off the field.

Based on the level of acumen you have displayed here, you must lose a lot of five-dollar bets.

You baited the coach; you bragged about it; then you changed your story to make the encounter seem justified. That's fine; you already openly and fully displayed that you play a lot of games. Maybe you should wonder why so many coaches swear at you, and not what less-than-clever routine you're going to throw out there when they do.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Then you posted it and bragged about it.

Uhm, to be fair, I'd have to say I don't think he bragged about it. It was a story, and it ended up being a story with multiple themes, it turns out. And one of those themes was how coaches want certain things called differently depending on game situation.

(Interesting how a coach will b!tch that your zone is changing as the game goes on, but yet pull a gem like the OP?

"How can you call that NOW???"

"Easily, actually.")

Anyway, I just disagree with UMP25 about what led to EJ, because I don't think I would have done it the same way. The more games I get, I just might, because I have a sarcastic bent to begin with, and I figure one day that beast will get released. And I just wanted to point out that the lesser knowns would have copped a bigger spray than he did - just one of them things.

But I don't think the intent was to show us the scalp he took.

[Kevin Finnerty]

You know, Hokie, you have a fair-mindedness about you that is refreshing at the very least and wholly worth emulating at the very most.

What I saw as bragging or boasting may well have been an honest and generous attempt at making us all avoid becoming coach-baiters.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Based on the level of acumen you have displayed here, you must lose a lot of five-dollar bets.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You are not qualified to judge me as a baseball man, given your tendencies.

Just soak in the hypocrisy, folks.

[Kevin Finnerty]

And what is hypocritical?

He's not qualified to judge me as a baseball man based on the sense of judgment he has put on display here. What are you missing?

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Based on the level of acumen you have displayed here, you must lose a lot of five-dollar bets.

You'd be wrong, but that's nothing new.

Maybe you should wonder why so many coaches swear at you...

"So many"? Who knew that a mere two (and both coaches this year just happened to be coaches who were very frustrated with their teams' performances, each coming off lengthy losing streaks*) in the last 4+ years would be "a lot"? I see mathematics wasn't your strong suit either.

*Of course, this playing a part is something you wouldn't understand, I'm sure.

[Ump Rube]

I just feel the need to thank everyone who has been posting in this thread. It is a long day at work (the "real" kind, not the "fun wearing blue" kind) and this back-and-forth is just humorous enough to keep me going until the close of business.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

Anyway, I just disagree with UMP25 about what led to EJ, because I don't think I would have done it the same way.

And I can respect that statement, because I'm not saying one should take a specific course of action. As I said earlier, the point of this whole thread was NOT to recommend a course of action when trying to figure out when to eject a head coach; rather, it was to laugh here, in this officials' forum, over what I (and many of my peers) found to be a humorous contention by said head coach.

Now, Hokie, an umpire faced with a coach who's screaming, "You can't call a balk in a big game like this," or "You can't call a balk in this situation," or similar statements is left with a variety of options on how to respond--if at all.

If I ignore said coach, Kevin would probably claim I was being smug and indignant. If I would've replied inquisitively, "Then when can I call a balk, Joe (not the coach's real name)?" or "Why not, Joe?" or something similar, Kevin would have scolded me still, claiming that I was baiting the coach.

I never intended to bait the coach; I merely wanted HIM to tell ME when, based on his claims, I COULD call a balk. There was no reason for him to swear at me and make it personal; I would not have ejected him had he said the call was brutal, or that it stunk, or that I call too many balks, etc.

I just happened to be the umpire who, in less than two weeks time, had on his schedule teams that had run up losing streaks, which, as most of us know, tend to cause head coaches to get closer to that breaking point. In fact, the head coach whom I ejected a couple weeks ago, was rumored to "have lost it," "gone off his rocker," "facing mutiny from his players," "went nuts,"--all comments that his fellow head coaches in the area had said about him. But I digress.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

I just feel the need to thank everyone who has been posting in this thread. It is a long day at work (the "real" kind, not the "fun wearing blue" kind) and this back-and-forth is just humorous enough to keep me going until the close of business.

Glad we can make your day that much more enjoyable. It's easy to do when one debates bland, humorless individuals. It's kinda like when my mother and I talk.

[cardinalfan]

I have been trained as a trauma/crisis counselor and facilitate debriefings for police & fire depts after shootings, accidents, chases, etc. In tense situations, each word can literally be life or death, and I have learned to choose my words carefully in that setting (but not always in this forum!).
Since my training, I have tried to use the same tactics in umpiring, and that is when my ejections ebbed.

There has been some good points brought out in this discussion.
No umpire should let a player or coach swear at them. Anyone who does and doesn't take care of that won't be respected.
Coaches can't argue balls and strikes. If they do, they are looking to be shown the gate.
Umpires should not bait coaches into an ejection. If an umpire craves the adrenaline rush of an ejection enough to bait a coach into it, he has crossed the ethical line, imho.

As far as all the other accusations in this thread... if this was a real game, somebody would have been ejected by now.

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by cardinalfan

As far as all the other accusations in this thread... if this was a real game, somebody would have been ejected by now.

I think the umpire in Major League II said it best, "That's it you're outta here! All'a ya'!"